Phaedrus — Plato

BOOK V Such is the good and true State, and the good and true man is of the same pattern ; and if this is right every other is wrong ; and the error is one which affects not only the ordering of the State, but also the regulation of the 449- individual soul. There are four forms of this evil. ^ What are they ? he said.

I was proceeding to tell the order in which the four evil forms appeared to me to succeed one another, when Polemarchus began to whisper to his neighbor Adeimantus, who was sitting just beyond him on the further side. He put out his hand, and took him by the coat at the upper part, by the shoulder, and drew him towards him, leaning forward himself and saying something, of which I only caught the words, ** Shall we let him off, or what?

" Certainly not, said Adeimantus, raising his voice. What is that, I said, which you refuse to let off? You, he said. Still I asked for an explanation.

Why, he said, we think that you are lazy and mean to cheat us out of the best part of the story ; and you have a notion that you will not be detected in passing Hghtly over an entire and very important division of the subject, — that which relates to women and children, — as if there could be no manner of doubt in this instance also that ** friends will have all things in common.** [In what follows, Plato sets forth his view that property, */ wives, and children should be in common, and that men ^ and women should have the same education.

In the Laws he admits that communism is impracticable in this world, but says it is an ideal towards which we should strive.

'* The first and highest form of the State and of the government and of the law is that in which there prevails most widely the ancient saying, that * Friends have all things in common.* Whether there is now, or ever will be, this communion of women and children and of property, in which the private and individual is altogether banished from life and things

28o PLATO THE TEACHER which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and blame, and feel joy and sorrow, on the same occasions, and the laws unite the city to the utmost — whether all this is possible or not, I say that no man, acting upon any other principle, will ever constitute a State more exalted in virtue, or truer or better than this.

Such a State, whether inhabited by gods or sons of gods, will make them blessed who dwell therein ; and therefore to this we are to look for the pattern of the State, and to cling to this, and, as far as possible, to seek for one which is like this.*' — Laws, V., 739.] The inquiry, I said, has yet to be made, whether such a community will be found possible — as among other animals so also among men — and if possible, in what way possible?

That, he said, is just the question which I was going to ask. As to war, I said, there is no difficulty in seeing how that will be managed. How will that be? he asked.

Why, of course, they will go on expeditions together ; and ; will take with them any of their children who are strong enough, that, like the children of artisans in general, they may look on at the work, which they will have to do when they are ^ grown up ; and besides looking on they will be able to ^ ' help and be of use in war, and to wait upon their fathers and mothers.

Did you never observe in the arts how the potters' boys look on and help, long before they touch the wheel ? Certainly. And shall potters be more careful than our guardians in educating their children and giving them the opportunity of seeing and practicing their duties? That would be ridiculous, he said.

There is another thing ; which is the effect on the parents, with whom, as with other animals, the presence of their cubs will be the greatest incentive to valor. That is quite true, Socrates ; and yet if they are defeated, which may often happen in war, how great the danger is ! the children will be lost as well as their parents, and the State will never recover.

p. 281 True, I said ; but would you never allow them to run any risk? I am far from saying that. Well, but if they are ever to run a risk should they not run the risk when there is a chance of their improvement ? Clearly. Whether the future soldiers do or do not see war in the days of their youth is a very important matter, for the sake of which some risk may fairly be incurred. Yes, that is very important.

Then, in the first place, we must provide that the children should see war, and then contrive a way of safety for them ; thus all will be well. True. Their parents may be supposed to have ordinary common j sense and understanding of the risks of war ; they will know what expeditions are safe and what dangerous ? That may be supposed. And they will take them on the safe expeditions and be cautious about the dangerous ones ? True.

And they will give them as commanders experienced veterans ^ who will be their leaders and teachers ? Yes, that is very proper. Still, the dangers of war cannot alwaj's be foreseen ; there is a good deal of chance about them ? True. Then against such chances the children must be at once furnished with wings, in order that in the hour of need they may fly away and escape. What do you mean ? he said.

I mean that we must mount them on horses in their earliest f youth and take them on horseback to see war, in order that they may learn to ride ; the horses must not be spirited and warlike, but the most tractable and yet the swiftest that can be had.

In this way they will get an excellent view of what ishereafter to be their business ; and if there is danger they ^^ have only to follow their elder leaders and escape. ^ I believe that you are right, he said. Next, as to war ; what are to be the relations of your sol- » Instead ol putting them in charge of slaves as was customary.