Fetching
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Fetching
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Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1If one man were to seize hold intentionally of a fiery mass of metal glowing with heat, and another were to seize hold of it unintentionally, which would be more burnt ?’ ‘The one who did not know what he was doing.’ ‘Well, it is just the same with the man who does wrong.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ g. The king said: ‘Is there any one, Nagasena, 1 The above is a paragraph constantly recurring in the Pali Pifakas. See, for instance, Digha II, 75 ; Anguttara III, 104; and Mahavagga VIII, 15, 13 (where I have annotated the details). (35) K 130 . THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IT], 7, ro. who can go with this bodily frame to Uttara-kuru or to the Brahma world, or to any other of the four great continents (into which the world is divided)?’ ‘Yes, there are such people.’ ‘But how can they?’ [85] ‘Do you recollect, O king, having ever jumped a foot or two feet across the ground ?’ ‘Yes, Nagasena, I can jump twelve feet.’ ‘But how?’ ‘I fix my mind on the idea of alighting there, and at the moment of my determination my body comes to seem light to me.’ ‘Just so, O king, can the Bhikkhu, who has the power of Iddhi, and has the mastery over his mind, when he has made his mind rise up to the occasion, travel through the sky by means of his mind.’ ‘Very good, NAgasena !’ 10. The king said: ‘Your people say there are bones even a hundred leagues long. Now there is no tree even one hundred leagues in length, how then can there be bones so long ?’ ‘But tell me, O king. Have you not heard of fishes in the sea five hundred leagues in length ?’ ‘Yes. I have heard of such.’ ‘If so, could they not have bones a hundred leagues long ?’ ‘Very good, NAgasena!’ 11. The king said: ‘Your people, NAgasena, say that it is possible to suppress the inhaling and exhaling (of one’s breath). ‘Yes, that can be done.’ ‘ But how?’ IM, 7, 13. SNORING. 131 ‘Tell me, O king. Have you ever heard of a man snoring? ?’ ‘Yes.’ “Well, would not thatsound stop if he bent his body ?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Then surely if that sound would stop at the mere bending of the body of one who is untrained alike in body, in conduct, in mind, and in wisdom —why should it not be possible for the breathing of one trained in all these respects, and who has besides reached up to the fourth stage of the ecstatic contemplation 2, to be suppressed ?’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 12. The king said: ‘There is the expression ocean, Nagasena. Why is the water called ocean ?’ The Elder replied [86]: ‘ Because there is just as much salt as water, O king, and just as much water as salt, therefore is it called ocean 3,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 13. The king said: ‘Why, NAgasena, is the ocean all of one taste, the taste of salt ?’ 1 Kakakkhamano. See GAtaka I, 60, 24; 160,18. Hinasikumburé renders it ‘sleeping with a snore (gorawamin) hke the sound of crows (kaka).’ = Ghana.
2The king said: ‘Why, NAgasena, is the ocean all of one taste, the taste of salt ?’ 1 Kakakkhamano. See GAtaka I, 60, 24; 160,18. Hinasikumburé renders it ‘sleeping with a snore (gorawamin) hke the sound of crows (kaka).’ = Ghana. > Samudda. The answer (to give orportunity for which the question is invented) is a kind of punning etymology of this PAli word for ocean. Our author seems to take it as meaning ‘ equal water-ness, from sama and ud(aka). The real derivation is very different. It is from the root ud, which is allied to our ‘wet’ and the Greek verds, and the prefix sam in the sense of completeness. It is difficult to reconcile the reply to this. There is a kind of conversation condemned in the Digha I, 1, 17, and elsewhere as samuddakkhayika, which is explained in the Sumangala, p. 91, a8 deriving samudda from sa, ‘with,’ and muddé, ‘a seal ring.’ K 2 132 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. _III,7, 14. ‘Because the water in it has stood so long, therefore it is all of one taste, the taste of salt’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 14. The king said: ‘Can even the most minute thing, Nagasena, be divided ?’ ‘ Yes, it can.’ ‘And what, Sir, is the most minute of all things.’ ‘Truth (Dhamma), O king, is the most minute and subtle. But this is not true of all qualities (Dhammé4). Subtleness or the reverse are epithets of qualities. But whatever can be divided that can wisdom (Pazi#) divide, and there is no other quality which can divide wisdom.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 15. The king said: ‘These three, Nagasena,— perception, and reason, and the soul in a being,—are they all different both in letter and in essence, or the same in essence differing only in the letter ?’ ‘ Recognition, O king, is the mark of perception, and discrimination of reason *, and there is no such thing as a soul in beings *.’ 1 In the same way the Buddhist religion (the Dhamma- Vinaya) is said in the Kullavagga IX, 1, 4, to be ‘all of one taste, the taste of salvation, emancipation’ (Vimutti). ® So also above, II, 3, 12. Here the words are Vig4nanalakkhanam viafanam, pagfinan4-lakkhama pa##A, which the Ceylon translator amplifies into ‘As a peasant, on seeing grains of gold, would recognise them as valuable, so is it the characteristic of vi##4na to recognise aramunu (objects of sense) when it sees them. As a goldsmith, on seeing grains of gold, would not only know they were valuable, but also discriminate their value (as large or small), so is it the characteristic of pa##A, not only to recognise, but also to discriminate between the objects of sense.’ ® See above, II, 3,6, and II, 3,16. Hinasi-kumburé here renders Ill, 7, 16. SOUL. 133 ‘ But if there be no such thing as a soul, what is it then which sees forms with the eye, and hears sounds with the ear, and smells odours with the nose, and tastes tastes with the tongue, and feels touch with the body, or perceives qualities with the mind ?’
3SOUL. 133 ‘ But if there be no such thing as a soul, what is it then which sees forms with the eye, and hears sounds with the ear, and smells odours with the nose, and tastes tastes with the tongue, and feels touch with the body, or perceives qualities with the mind ?’ The Elder replied: ‘If there be a soul (distinct from the body) which does all this, then if the door of the eye were thrown down (if the eye were plucked out) could it stretch out its head, as it were, through the larger aperture and (with greater range) see forms much more clearly than before? Could one hear sounds better if the ears were torn away, or smell better if the nose were cut off, or taste better if the tongue were pulled out, or feel touch better if the body were destroyed ?’ [87] ‘Certainly not, Sir.’ ‘Then there can be no soul inside the body.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 16. The Elder said: ‘A hard thing there is, O king, which the Blessed One has done.’ ‘And what is that ?’ ‘The fixing of all those mental conditions which depend on one organ of sense, telling us that such is contact, and such sensation, and such idea, and such intention, and such thought’.’ ‘ Give me an illustration.’ ‘Suppose, O king, a man were to wade down into the sea, and taking some water in the palm of his hand, were to taste it with his tongue. Would he givo by the ‘life (or perhaps living principle, givita) inside the forms produced out of the four elements.’ 1 Phasso, vedan4, sa##4, ketan4, dittam. 134 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. III, 7, 17. distinguish whether it were water from the Ganges, or from the Jumna, or from the Aé4iravatt, or from the Sarabha, or from the Mahi ?’ ‘ Impossible, Sir.’ ‘More difficult than that, great king, is it to have distinguished between the mental conditions which follow on the exercise of any one of the organs of sense !’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ Here ends the Seventh Chapter '. 17. The Elder said: ‘Do you know, O king, what time it is now ?’ ‘Yes, Sir, I know. The first watch of the night is now passed. The middle watch is now going on. The torches are lit. The four banners are ordered to be raised, and appropriate gifts to be issued to you from the treasury.’ The Yonakas said: ‘Very good, great king. Most able is the Bhikkhu.’ ‘Yes, my men. Most able is the Bhikkhu. Were the master like him and the pupil like me, [88] a clever scholar would not take long in getting at the truth.’ Then the king, pleased with the explanations given of the questions he had put, had Nagasena robed in an embroidered cloak worth a hundred thousand ?, and said to him: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, I hereby order that you shall be provided with your daily meal for eight hundred days, and give you the ' See the note at the end of Book II, Chapter 3, § 14. * That is kah4pamas, ‘half-pennies.’ IIT, 7, 18. DEPARTURE. 135
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1If one man were to seize hold intentionally of a fiery mass of metal glowing with heat, and another were to seize hold of it unintentionally, which would be more burnt ?’ ‘The one who did not know what he was doing.’ ‘Well, it is just the same with the man who does wrong.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ g. The king said: ‘Is there any one, Nagasena, 1 The above is a paragraph constantly recurring in the Pali Pifakas. See, for instance, Digha II, 75 ; Anguttara III, 104; and Mahavagga VIII, 15, 13 (where I have annotated the details). (35) K 130 . THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IT], 7, ro. who can go with this bodily frame to Uttara-kuru or to the Brahma world, or to any other of the four great continents (into which the world is divided)?’ ‘Yes, there are such people.’ ‘But how can they?’ [85] ‘Do you recollect, O king, having ever jumped a foot or two feet across the ground ?’ ‘Yes, Nagasena, I can jump twelve feet.’ ‘But how?’ ‘I fix my mind on the idea of alighting there, and at the moment of my determination my body comes to seem light to me.’ ‘Just so, O king, can the Bhikkhu, who has the power of Iddhi, and has the mastery over his mind, when he has made his mind rise up to the occasion, travel through the sky by means of his mind.’ ‘Very good, NAgasena !’ 10. The king said: ‘Your people say there are bones even a hundred leagues long. Now there is no tree even one hundred leagues in length, how then can there be bones so long ?’ ‘But tell me, O king. Have you not heard of fishes in the sea five hundred leagues in length ?’ ‘Yes. I have heard of such.’ ‘If so, could they not have bones a hundred leagues long ?’ ‘Very good, NAgasena!’ 11. The king said: ‘Your people, NAgasena, say that it is possible to suppress the inhaling and exhaling (of one’s breath). ‘Yes, that can be done.’ ‘ But how?’ IM, 7, 13. SNORING. 131 ‘Tell me, O king. Have you ever heard of a man snoring? ?’ ‘Yes.’ “Well, would not thatsound stop if he bent his body ?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Then surely if that sound would stop at the mere bending of the body of one who is untrained alike in body, in conduct, in mind, and in wisdom —why should it not be possible for the breathing of one trained in all these respects, and who has besides reached up to the fourth stage of the ecstatic contemplation 2, to be suppressed ?’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 12. The king said: ‘There is the expression ocean, Nagasena. Why is the water called ocean ?’ The Elder replied [86]: ‘ Because there is just as much salt as water, O king, and just as much water as salt, therefore is it called ocean 3,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 13. The king said: ‘Why, NAgasena, is the ocean all of one taste, the taste of salt ?’ 1 Kakakkhamano. See GAtaka I, 60, 24; 160,18. Hinasikumburé renders it ‘sleeping with a snore (gorawamin) hke the sound of crows (kaka).’ = Ghana.
2The king said: ‘Why, NAgasena, is the ocean all of one taste, the taste of salt ?’ 1 Kakakkhamano. See GAtaka I, 60, 24; 160,18. Hinasikumburé renders it ‘sleeping with a snore (gorawamin) hke the sound of crows (kaka).’ = Ghana. > Samudda. The answer (to give orportunity for which the question is invented) is a kind of punning etymology of this PAli word for ocean. Our author seems to take it as meaning ‘ equal water-ness, from sama and ud(aka). The real derivation is very different. It is from the root ud, which is allied to our ‘wet’ and the Greek verds, and the prefix sam in the sense of completeness. It is difficult to reconcile the reply to this. There is a kind of conversation condemned in the Digha I, 1, 17, and elsewhere as samuddakkhayika, which is explained in the Sumangala, p. 91, a8 deriving samudda from sa, ‘with,’ and muddé, ‘a seal ring.’ K 2 132 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. _III,7, 14. ‘Because the water in it has stood so long, therefore it is all of one taste, the taste of salt’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 14. The king said: ‘Can even the most minute thing, Nagasena, be divided ?’ ‘ Yes, it can.’ ‘And what, Sir, is the most minute of all things.’ ‘Truth (Dhamma), O king, is the most minute and subtle. But this is not true of all qualities (Dhammé4). Subtleness or the reverse are epithets of qualities. But whatever can be divided that can wisdom (Pazi#) divide, and there is no other quality which can divide wisdom.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 15. The king said: ‘These three, Nagasena,— perception, and reason, and the soul in a being,—are they all different both in letter and in essence, or the same in essence differing only in the letter ?’ ‘ Recognition, O king, is the mark of perception, and discrimination of reason *, and there is no such thing as a soul in beings *.’ 1 In the same way the Buddhist religion (the Dhamma- Vinaya) is said in the Kullavagga IX, 1, 4, to be ‘all of one taste, the taste of salvation, emancipation’ (Vimutti). ® So also above, II, 3, 12. Here the words are Vig4nanalakkhanam viafanam, pagfinan4-lakkhama pa##A, which the Ceylon translator amplifies into ‘As a peasant, on seeing grains of gold, would recognise them as valuable, so is it the characteristic of vi##4na to recognise aramunu (objects of sense) when it sees them. As a goldsmith, on seeing grains of gold, would not only know they were valuable, but also discriminate their value (as large or small), so is it the characteristic of pa##A, not only to recognise, but also to discriminate between the objects of sense.’ ® See above, II, 3,6, and II, 3,16. Hinasi-kumburé here renders Ill, 7, 16. SOUL. 133 ‘ But if there be no such thing as a soul, what is it then which sees forms with the eye, and hears sounds with the ear, and smells odours with the nose, and tastes tastes with the tongue, and feels touch with the body, or perceives qualities with the mind ?’
3SOUL. 133 ‘ But if there be no such thing as a soul, what is it then which sees forms with the eye, and hears sounds with the ear, and smells odours with the nose, and tastes tastes with the tongue, and feels touch with the body, or perceives qualities with the mind ?’ The Elder replied: ‘If there be a soul (distinct from the body) which does all this, then if the door of the eye were thrown down (if the eye were plucked out) could it stretch out its head, as it were, through the larger aperture and (with greater range) see forms much more clearly than before? Could one hear sounds better if the ears were torn away, or smell better if the nose were cut off, or taste better if the tongue were pulled out, or feel touch better if the body were destroyed ?’ [87] ‘Certainly not, Sir.’ ‘Then there can be no soul inside the body.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 16. The Elder said: ‘A hard thing there is, O king, which the Blessed One has done.’ ‘And what is that ?’ ‘The fixing of all those mental conditions which depend on one organ of sense, telling us that such is contact, and such sensation, and such idea, and such intention, and such thought’.’ ‘ Give me an illustration.’ ‘Suppose, O king, a man were to wade down into the sea, and taking some water in the palm of his hand, were to taste it with his tongue. Would he givo by the ‘life (or perhaps living principle, givita) inside the forms produced out of the four elements.’ 1 Phasso, vedan4, sa##4, ketan4, dittam. 134 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. III, 7, 17. distinguish whether it were water from the Ganges, or from the Jumna, or from the Aé4iravatt, or from the Sarabha, or from the Mahi ?’ ‘ Impossible, Sir.’ ‘More difficult than that, great king, is it to have distinguished between the mental conditions which follow on the exercise of any one of the organs of sense !’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ Here ends the Seventh Chapter '. 17. The Elder said: ‘Do you know, O king, what time it is now ?’ ‘Yes, Sir, I know. The first watch of the night is now passed. The middle watch is now going on. The torches are lit. The four banners are ordered to be raised, and appropriate gifts to be issued to you from the treasury.’ The Yonakas said: ‘Very good, great king. Most able is the Bhikkhu.’ ‘Yes, my men. Most able is the Bhikkhu. Were the master like him and the pupil like me, [88] a clever scholar would not take long in getting at the truth.’ Then the king, pleased with the explanations given of the questions he had put, had Nagasena robed in an embroidered cloak worth a hundred thousand ?, and said to him: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, I hereby order that you shall be provided with your daily meal for eight hundred days, and give you the ' See the note at the end of Book II, Chapter 3, § 14. * That is kah4pamas, ‘half-pennies.’ IIT, 7, 18. DEPARTURE. 135
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
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