Fetching
One moment.
Fetching
One moment.
Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1106 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. III, 4,5. of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, yet are they not destroyed. If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “ He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted.”’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 5. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, your people say that the world rests on water, the water on air, the air on space’. This saying also I cannot believe.’ Then the Elder brought water in a regulation water-pot 7, and convinced king Milinda, saying: ‘As this water is supported by the atmosphere, so is that water supported by air.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena ! ' 6. The king said : ‘Is cessation Nirvaza’?’ ‘Yes, your Majesty’ [69]. ‘ How is that, Nagasena ?’ ‘All foolish individuals, O king, take pleasure in ’ This is not a distinctively Buddhist belief. It was commonly held at the time by other teachers. Compare ‘ Book of the Great Decease,’ III, 13 (in ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ Sacred Books of the East, vol. xi, p. 45). 2 Dhamma-karakena. The passages show that this was a pot so made, that no water could pass from it except through a filtering medium. When not being actually used the water was no doubt kept at a certain height in it by the pressure of the atmosphere. I do not know of any specimen preserved in our modern museums or figured on ancient bas-reliefs, and the exact shape is unknown. It must be different from the one represented in plate xlviii of Cunningham’s ‘Bhilsa Tope.’ See Xullavagga V, 13, 1 (note); VI, 21, 3; XII, 2, 1; Mah&vamsa, p. 60. * Nirodho nibbanan ti. III, 4, 7: NIRVANA. 107 the senses and in the objects of sense, find delight in them, continue to cleave to them?. Hence are they carried down by that flood (of human passions), they are not set free from birth, old age, and death, from grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair,— they are not set free, I say, from suffering. But the wise, O king, the disciple of the noble ones, neither takes pleasure in those things, nor finds delight in them, nor continues cleaving to them. And inasmuch as he does not, in him craving? ceases, and by the cessation of craving grasping? ceases, and by the cessation of grasping becoming * ceases, and when becoming has ceased birth ceases, and with its cessation birth, old age, and death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair cease to exist. Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’
2Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’ ‘Not all, O king. But he who walks righteously, who admits those conditions which ought to be admitted, perceives clearly those conditions which ought to be clearly perceived, abandons those conditions which ought to be abandoned, practises himself in those conditions which ought to be practised, realises those conditions which ought to be realised— he receives Nirvaza.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 1 Agghosaya tisfhanti. Compare Anguttara II, 4, 6, and Theri Gatha, 794. * Tanha, Upaddana, Bhava. 108 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA.’ III, 4,8. 8. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, does he who does not receive Nirvana know how happy a state Nirvama is! ?’ ‘ Yes, he knows it.’ ‘ But how can he know that without his receiving Nirvana ?’ ‘Now what do you think, O king? Do those whose hands and feet have not been cut off know how sad a thing it is to have them cut off?’ ‘Yes, Sir, that they know.’ ‘But how do they know it ?’ ‘Well, by hearing the sound of the lamentation of those whose hands and feet have been cut off, they know it.’ [70] ‘Just so, great king, it is by hearing the glad words of those who have seen Nirvama, that they who have not received it know how happy a state it is. ‘Very good, NAgasena!’ Here ends the Fourth Chapter. 1 The opposite point (whether he who has Nirvana, knows that he has it) is discussed above, II, 2. IIT, 5, 2. . THE BUDDHA PRE-EMINENT. 109 Boox III. Cuapter 5. 1. The king said: ‘Have you, NAgasena, seen the Buddha ?’ ‘No, Sire.’ ‘Then have your teachers seen the Buddha ?’ ‘No, Sire.’ ‘ Then, venerable NAgasena, there is no Buddha?!’ ‘ But, great king, have you seen the river Uha in the Him4laya mountains ?’ ‘No, Sir.’ ‘Or has your father seen it ?’ ‘No, Sir.’ ‘Then, your Majesty, is there therefore no such river ?’ ‘It is there. Though neither I nor my father has seen it, it is nevertheless there.’ ‘Just so, great king, though neither I nor my teachers have seen the Blessed One, nevertheless there was such a person.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 2. The king said: ‘Is the Buddha, Nagasena, pre-eminent ?’ ‘Yes, he is incomparable.’ ‘But how do you know of one you have never seen that he is pre-eminent.’ ‘Now what do you think, O king? They who have never seen the ocean would they know con- 1 This dialogue is so far identical with VI, 1,1. It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174. 110 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IMI, 5, 3.
3It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174. 110 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IMI, 5, 3. cerning it: “ Deep, unmeasurable, unfathomable is the mighty ocean. Into it do the five great rivers flow—the Ganges, the Jumna, the Afiravatt, the Sarabhai, and the Maht—and yet is there in it no appearance of being more empty or more full!” ?’ ‘Yes, they would know that.’ ‘Just so, great king, when I think of the mighty disciples who have passed away then do I know that the Buddha is incomparable.’ [71] ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 3. The king said: ‘Is it possible, NAgasena, for others to know how incomparable the Buddha is ?’ ‘Yes, they may know it.’ ‘But how can they ?’ ‘Long, long ago, O king, there was a master of writing, by name Tissa the Elder, and many are the years gone by since he has died. How can people know of him ?’ ‘ By his writing, Sir.’ ‘Just so, great king, whosoever sees what the Truth! is, he sees what the Blessed One was, for the Truth was preached by the Blessed One.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 4. The king said: ‘Have you, Nagasena, seen what the Truth is?’ ‘Have not we disciples, O king, to conduct ourselves our lives long as under the eye of the Buddha, and under his command ? ?’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 1 Dhammam, here nearly=Buddhism. See below, III, 5, ro. * Mr. Trenckner thinks there is a lacuna here; and Hinafkumburé’s version perhaps supports this. He renders the passage, « How can a man use a path he does not know? And have not we III, s, 6. THE SOUL. III 5. The king said: ‘Where there is no transmigration, Nagasena, can there be rebirth ?’ “Yes, there can.’ ‘ But how can that be? Give me an illustration.’ ‘Suppose a man, O king, were to light a lamp from another lamp, can it be said that the one transmigrates from, or to, the other ?’ ‘Certainly not.’ ‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’ ‘Give me a further illustration.’ ; ‘Do you recollect, great king, having learnt, when you were a boy, some verse or other from your teacher ?’ ‘Yes, I recollect that.’ ‘Well then, did that verse transmigrate from your teacher ?’ ‘Certainly not.’ ‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 6. The king said: ‘Is there such a thing, Nagasena, as the soul! ?’ ‘In the highest sense, O king, there is no such thing? our lives long to conduct ourselves according to the Vinaya (the rules of the Order), which the Buddha preached, and which are called the eye of the Buddha, and according to the Sikkh4pada (ethics) which he laid down, and which are called his command?’ But there are other passages, no less amplified in the Simhalese, where there is evidently no lacuna in the P4li; and the passage may well have been meant as a kind of riddle, to which the Simhalese supplies the solution.
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1106 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. III, 4,5. of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, yet are they not destroyed. If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “ He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted.”’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 5. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, your people say that the world rests on water, the water on air, the air on space’. This saying also I cannot believe.’ Then the Elder brought water in a regulation water-pot 7, and convinced king Milinda, saying: ‘As this water is supported by the atmosphere, so is that water supported by air.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena ! ' 6. The king said : ‘Is cessation Nirvaza’?’ ‘Yes, your Majesty’ [69]. ‘ How is that, Nagasena ?’ ‘All foolish individuals, O king, take pleasure in ’ This is not a distinctively Buddhist belief. It was commonly held at the time by other teachers. Compare ‘ Book of the Great Decease,’ III, 13 (in ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ Sacred Books of the East, vol. xi, p. 45). 2 Dhamma-karakena. The passages show that this was a pot so made, that no water could pass from it except through a filtering medium. When not being actually used the water was no doubt kept at a certain height in it by the pressure of the atmosphere. I do not know of any specimen preserved in our modern museums or figured on ancient bas-reliefs, and the exact shape is unknown. It must be different from the one represented in plate xlviii of Cunningham’s ‘Bhilsa Tope.’ See Xullavagga V, 13, 1 (note); VI, 21, 3; XII, 2, 1; Mah&vamsa, p. 60. * Nirodho nibbanan ti. III, 4, 7: NIRVANA. 107 the senses and in the objects of sense, find delight in them, continue to cleave to them?. Hence are they carried down by that flood (of human passions), they are not set free from birth, old age, and death, from grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair,— they are not set free, I say, from suffering. But the wise, O king, the disciple of the noble ones, neither takes pleasure in those things, nor finds delight in them, nor continues cleaving to them. And inasmuch as he does not, in him craving? ceases, and by the cessation of craving grasping? ceases, and by the cessation of grasping becoming * ceases, and when becoming has ceased birth ceases, and with its cessation birth, old age, and death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair cease to exist. Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’
2Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’ ‘Not all, O king. But he who walks righteously, who admits those conditions which ought to be admitted, perceives clearly those conditions which ought to be clearly perceived, abandons those conditions which ought to be abandoned, practises himself in those conditions which ought to be practised, realises those conditions which ought to be realised— he receives Nirvaza.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 1 Agghosaya tisfhanti. Compare Anguttara II, 4, 6, and Theri Gatha, 794. * Tanha, Upaddana, Bhava. 108 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA.’ III, 4,8. 8. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, does he who does not receive Nirvana know how happy a state Nirvama is! ?’ ‘ Yes, he knows it.’ ‘ But how can he know that without his receiving Nirvana ?’ ‘Now what do you think, O king? Do those whose hands and feet have not been cut off know how sad a thing it is to have them cut off?’ ‘Yes, Sir, that they know.’ ‘But how do they know it ?’ ‘Well, by hearing the sound of the lamentation of those whose hands and feet have been cut off, they know it.’ [70] ‘Just so, great king, it is by hearing the glad words of those who have seen Nirvama, that they who have not received it know how happy a state it is. ‘Very good, NAgasena!’ Here ends the Fourth Chapter. 1 The opposite point (whether he who has Nirvana, knows that he has it) is discussed above, II, 2. IIT, 5, 2. . THE BUDDHA PRE-EMINENT. 109 Boox III. Cuapter 5. 1. The king said: ‘Have you, NAgasena, seen the Buddha ?’ ‘No, Sire.’ ‘Then have your teachers seen the Buddha ?’ ‘No, Sire.’ ‘ Then, venerable NAgasena, there is no Buddha?!’ ‘ But, great king, have you seen the river Uha in the Him4laya mountains ?’ ‘No, Sir.’ ‘Or has your father seen it ?’ ‘No, Sir.’ ‘Then, your Majesty, is there therefore no such river ?’ ‘It is there. Though neither I nor my father has seen it, it is nevertheless there.’ ‘Just so, great king, though neither I nor my teachers have seen the Blessed One, nevertheless there was such a person.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 2. The king said: ‘Is the Buddha, Nagasena, pre-eminent ?’ ‘Yes, he is incomparable.’ ‘But how do you know of one you have never seen that he is pre-eminent.’ ‘Now what do you think, O king? They who have never seen the ocean would they know con- 1 This dialogue is so far identical with VI, 1,1. It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174. 110 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IMI, 5, 3.
3It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174. 110 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IMI, 5, 3. cerning it: “ Deep, unmeasurable, unfathomable is the mighty ocean. Into it do the five great rivers flow—the Ganges, the Jumna, the Afiravatt, the Sarabhai, and the Maht—and yet is there in it no appearance of being more empty or more full!” ?’ ‘Yes, they would know that.’ ‘Just so, great king, when I think of the mighty disciples who have passed away then do I know that the Buddha is incomparable.’ [71] ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 3. The king said: ‘Is it possible, NAgasena, for others to know how incomparable the Buddha is ?’ ‘Yes, they may know it.’ ‘But how can they ?’ ‘Long, long ago, O king, there was a master of writing, by name Tissa the Elder, and many are the years gone by since he has died. How can people know of him ?’ ‘ By his writing, Sir.’ ‘Just so, great king, whosoever sees what the Truth! is, he sees what the Blessed One was, for the Truth was preached by the Blessed One.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 4. The king said: ‘Have you, Nagasena, seen what the Truth is?’ ‘Have not we disciples, O king, to conduct ourselves our lives long as under the eye of the Buddha, and under his command ? ?’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’ 1 Dhammam, here nearly=Buddhism. See below, III, 5, ro. * Mr. Trenckner thinks there is a lacuna here; and Hinafkumburé’s version perhaps supports this. He renders the passage, « How can a man use a path he does not know? And have not we III, s, 6. THE SOUL. III 5. The king said: ‘Where there is no transmigration, Nagasena, can there be rebirth ?’ “Yes, there can.’ ‘ But how can that be? Give me an illustration.’ ‘Suppose a man, O king, were to light a lamp from another lamp, can it be said that the one transmigrates from, or to, the other ?’ ‘Certainly not.’ ‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’ ‘Give me a further illustration.’ ; ‘Do you recollect, great king, having learnt, when you were a boy, some verse or other from your teacher ?’ ‘Yes, I recollect that.’ ‘Well then, did that verse transmigrate from your teacher ?’ ‘Certainly not.’ ‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’ 6. The king said: ‘Is there such a thing, Nagasena, as the soul! ?’ ‘In the highest sense, O king, there is no such thing? our lives long to conduct ourselves according to the Vinaya (the rules of the Order), which the Buddha preached, and which are called the eye of the Buddha, and according to the Sikkh4pada (ethics) which he laid down, and which are called his command?’ But there are other passages, no less amplified in the Simhalese, where there is evidently no lacuna in the P4li; and the passage may well have been meant as a kind of riddle, to which the Simhalese supplies the solution.
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
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