Timaeus — Plato

True, he said. Nor does the art of horsemanship consider the interests of the art of horsemanship, but the interests of the horse ; neither do any other arts care for themselves, for they have no needs; they care only for that which is the subject of their art? True, he said. But surely, Thrasymachus, the arts are the superiors and rulers of their own subjects .f* To this he assented with a good deal of reluctance.

Then, I said, no science or art considers or enjoins the interest of the stronger or superior, but only the interest of the subject and weaker? He made an attempt to contest this proposition also, but finally acquiesced.

Then, I continued, no physician, in so far as he is a physician, considers his own good in what he prescribes, but the good of his patient ; for the true physician is also a ruler having the human body as a subject, and is not a mere money-maker ; that has been admitted ? Yes. And the pilot likewise, in the strict sense of the term, is a ruler of sailors and not a mere sailor? That has been admitted.

And such a pilot and ruler will provide and prescribe for the interest of the sailor who is under him, and not for his own or the ruler's interest? He gave a reluctant ' Yes.

Then, I said, Thrasymachus, there is no one in any rule who, in so far as he is a ruler, considers or enjoins what is for his own interest, but always what is for the interest of his subject or suitable to his art ; to that he looks, and that alone he considers in everything which he says and does.

When we had got to this point in the argument, and every 343 one saw that the definition of justice had been completely upset, Thrasymachus, instead of replying to me, said : Tell me, Socrates, have you got a nurse? Why do you ask such a question, I said, when you ought rather to be answering? Because she leaves you to snivel, and never wipes your

Instead of anszverhig guestiofts he makes a speech. 21 nose : she has not even taught you to know the shepherd RrpubUc i. from the sheep. Socrates,

Thrasyma- Be.cause you fancy that the shepherd or neatherd fattens

What makes vou say that? I replied. J J ^ CHt'S. ,

Thrasymaor tends the sheep or oxen with a view to their own good chus dilates and not to the good of himself or his master ; and you "p°" *^^ ^ •' advantages of further imagine that the rulers of states, if they are true injustice, rulers, never think of their subjects as sheep, and that they are not studying their own advantage day and night.

Oh, no ; and so entirely astray are you in your ideas about the just and unjust as not even to know that justice and the just are in reality another's good ; that is to say, the interest of the ruler and stronger, and the loss of the subject and servant ; and injustice the opposite ; for the unjust is lord over the truly simple and just : he is the stronger, and his subjects do what is for his interest, and minister to his happiness, which is very far from being their own.

Consider further, most foolish Socrates, that the just is always a loser in comparison with the unjust. First of all, in private contracts : wherever the unjust is the partner of the just you will find that, when the partnership is dissolved, the unjust man has always more and the just less.

Secondly, in their dealings with the State : when there is an income-tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income ; and when there is anything to be received the one gains nothing and the other much.

Observe also especially what happens when they take an office ; there is the just man ^^^^ '^"''' ^^ J ' ■' sued on a neglecting his affairs and perhaps suffering other losses, and great scale, getting nothing out of the pubhc, because he is just ; moreover he is hated by his friends and acquaintance for refusing to serve them in unlawful ways. But all this is reversed in the case of the unjust man.

I am speaking, as before, of 344 injustice on a large scale in which the advantage of the unjust is most apparent ; and my meaning will be most clearly seen if we turn to that highest form of injustice in which the criminal is the happiest of men, and the sufferers or those who refuse to do injustice are the most miserable — that is to Tyranny, say tyranny, which by fraud and force takes away the property of others, not little by litde but wholesale ; comprehending in one, things sacred as well as profane, private