Timaeus — Plato

old men who in spite of wrinkles and ugliness continue to frequent the gymnasia. Yes, indeed, he said : according to present notions the proposal would be thought ridiculous.

But then, I said, as we have determined to speak our minds, we must not fear the jests of the wits which will be directed against this sort of innovation ; how they will talk of women's attainments both in music and gymnastic, and above all about their wearing armour and riding upon horseback! Very true, he replied.

Yet having begun we must go forward to the rough places of the law ; at the same time begging of these gentlemen for once in their life to be serious.

Not long ago, as we shall remind them, the Hellenes were of the opinion, which is still generally received among the barbarians, that the sight of a naked man was ridiculous and improper ; and when first the Cretans and then the Lacedaemonians introduced the custom, the wits of that day might equally have ridiculed the innovation. No doubt.

But when experience showed that to let all things be uncovered was far better than to cover them up, and the ludicrous effect to the outward eye vanished before the better principle which reason asserted, then the man was perceived to be a fool who directs the shafts of his ridicule at any other sight but that of folly and vice, or seriously inclines to weigh the beautiful by any other standard but that of the good ^ Very true, he replied.

First, then, whether the question is to be put in jest or in earnest, let us come to an understanding about the nature of 453 woman : Is she capable of sharing either wholly or partially in the actions of men, or not at all? And is the art of war one of those arts in which she can or can not share? That will be the best way of commencing the enquiry, and will probably lead to the fairest conclusion. That will be much the best way.

Shall we take the other side first and begin by arguing against ourselves ; in this manner the adversary's position will not be undefended. * Reading with Paris A, koX Kokov . . .

The seeintJtg cojitradiction of the argiunent. 1 45 Why not? he said. Republic v. Then let us put a speech into the mouths of our opponents. Sockates, They will say : ' Socrates and Glaucon, no adversary need g^-^"^"^- convict vou, for you yourselves, at the first foundation of the ^^^-'ct'on- J ' J . We were State, admitted the principle that everybody was to do the saying that one work suited to his own nature.

And certainly, if I am ^'^^'"^,'^"^, . •' should do his not mistaken, such an admission was made by us. 'And do own work: not the natures of men and women differ very much in- ^^^^^ ""^ ^ ■' women and deed? ' And we shall reply: Of course they do. Then we men severally shall be asked, 'Whether the tasks assicrned to men and ^/'°'''^°^ ' ° their own ? to women should not be different, and such as are agreeable to their different natures?

' Certainly they should. ' But if so, have you not fallen into a serious inconsistency in saying that men and women, whose natures are so entirely different, ought to perform the same actions?' — What defence will you make for* us, my good Sir, against any one who offers these objections? That is not an easy question to answer when asked suddenly ; and I shall and I do beg of you to draw out the case on our side.

These are the objections, Glaucon, and there are many others of a Hke kind, which I foresaw long ago ; they made me afraid and reluctant to take in hand any law about the possession and nurture of women and children. By Zeus, he said, the problem to be solved is anything but easy. Why yes, I said, but the fact is that when a man is out of his depth, whether he has fallen into a little swimming bath or into mid ocean, he has to swim all the same.

Very true. And must not we swim and try to reach the shore : we will hope that Arion's dolphin or some other miraculous help may save us? I suppose so, he said. Well then, let us see if any way of escape can be found. We acknowledged — did we not? that different natures ought to have different pursuits, and that men's and women's natures are different.

And now what are we saying? — that different natures ought to have the same pursuits, — this is the inconsistency which is charged upon us. VOL. III. — 25

p. 146

Is there an essential or only an accidental

Republic V. Socrates, Glaucon.

The seeming inconsistency arises out of a verbal opposition.

When we assigned to different natures different pursuits, we meant only those differences of nature which affected the pursuits.