Timaeus — Plato

T I M A E U S.

PEKSOXS OF THE DIALOGUE. Socrates. Critias. TiMAEUS. Hermocrates. steph. Socrates. One, two, three ; but where, my dear Timaeus, rimaeus. ^ 7 is the fourth of those who were yesterday my guests and are Socrates, to be my entertainers to-day? Timaeus. Timaeus. He has been taken ill, Socrates ; for he would Jppointed not willingly have been absent from this gathering. meeting. Soc. Then, if he is not coming, you and the two others must supply his place. Tim. Certainly, and we will do all that we can ; having been handsomely entertained by you yesterday, those of us who remain should be only too glad to return your hospitality. Soc. Do you remember what were the points of which I The chief required you to speak? ^^7^^'" Tim. We remember some of them, and you will be here pubUc:— to remind us of anything which we have forgotten : or rather, if we are not troubling you, will you briefly recapitulate the whole, and then the particulars will be more firmly fixed in our memories? Soc. To be sure I will : the chief theme of my yesterday's discourse was the State — how constituted and of what citizens composed it would seem likely to be most perfect. Tim. Yes, Socrates ; and what you said of it was very much to otu* mind. Soc. Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and (i) Separation the artisans from the class of defenders of the State? " c asses.

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Summary of the Republic.

'J'imaeies. Socrates, TiMAEUS. (2) Division of labour.

(3) The double character of the guardians.

(4) Their education.

(5) Community of goods.

(6) The women to share in the pursuits of the men.

(7) Community of wives and children.

Tim. Yes. Soc. And when we had given to each one that single employment and particular art which was suited to his nature, we spoke of those who were intended to be our warriors, and said that they were to be guardians of the city against attacks from within as well as from without, and to have no other employment ; they were to ^be merciful in judging their subjects, of whom they were by nature friends, but fierce to their enemies, when they came across them in battle. Ti?n. Exactly. Soc. We said, if I am not mistaken, that the guardians should be gifted with a temperament in a high degree both passionate and philosophical ; and that then they would be as they ought to be, gentle to their friends and fierce with their enemies. Ti?n. Certainly. Soc. And what did we say of their education? Were they not to be trained in gymnastic, and music, and all other sorts of knowledge which were proper for them 1 ? Tim. Very true. Soc. And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or silver or anything else to be their own private property ; they were to be like hired troops, receiving pay for keeping guard from those who were protected by them — the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men of simple Hfe ; and they were to spend in common, and to live together in the continual practice of virtue, which was to be their sole pursuit. Ti7n. That was also said. Soc. Neither did we forget the women ; of whom we declared, that their natures should be assimilated and brought into harmony with those of the men, and that common pursuits should be assigned to them both in time of war and in their ordinary life. Tim. That, again, was as you say. Soc. And what about the procreation of children? Or rather was not the proposal too singular to be forgotten? for

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The State has to be exhibited in life and action. 439 all wives and children were to be in common, to the intent rimaeus. that no one should ever know his own child, but they were Socrates, to imagine that they were all one family ; those who were ^'•"^''^^^■swithin a suitable limit of age were to be brothers and sisters, those who were of an elder generation parents and grandparents, and those of a younger, children and grandchildren. Tim.

Yes, and the proposal is easy to remember, as you say. Soc.

And do you also remember how, with a view of (8) The securing as far as we could the best breed, we said that the ""p^'^' '"^^ chief magistrates, male and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the good of either sex might pair with their like ; and there was to be no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot?

Tun. I remember. Soc.

And you remember how we said that the children of (9) Trans- 19 the good parents were to be educated, and the children of ^ood'3"ji°b a the bad secretly dispersed among the inferior citizens ; and citizens, while they were all growing up the rulers were to be on the look-out, and to bring up from below in their turn those who were worthy, and those among themselves who were unworthy were to take the places of those who came up? Tim. True. Soc.

Then have I now given you all the heads of our yesterday's discussion? Or is there anything more, my dear Timaeus, which has been omitted? Tim. Nothing, Socrates ; it was just as you have said. Soc. I should like, before proceeding further, to tell you Socrates how I feel about the State which we have described.

I mip;ht '^^'^""^ '" '^ breathe hfe compare myself to a person who, on beholding beautiful into his sute: animals either created by the painter's art, or, better still, J^^ J^"Jfbe'*"^ ahve but at rest, is seized with a desire of seeing them its infant in motion or engaged in some struggle or conflict to which i||,"^^ ^.^s their forms appear suited; this is my feeling about the State not the gift which we have been describincr.

There are conflicts which " ^^"''^ u o tion himself, all cities undergo, and I should like to hear some one tell of and he finds our own city carrying on a struggle against her neighbours, ' ^p**^^ and how she went out to war in a becoming manner, and