Fetching
One moment.
Fetching
One moment.
Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1da Sylva's version in English from the Sinhalese, which may account for the fact that there is scarcely a sentence which is not misleading. l82 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 58. ' Nirvana is all bliss, O king. There is no inter- mingling of pain in it/ ' That, Sir, is a saying we cannot believe — that Nirvana is all bliss. On this point, Nagasena, we maintain that Nirvana must be alloyed with pain. And there is a reason for our adopting that view. What is that reason ? Those, Nagasena, who seek after Nirvana are seen to practise exertion and application both of body and of mind, restraint in standing, walking, sitting, lying, and eating, sup- pression of sleep, subjugation of the organs of sense, renunciation of wealth and corn, of dear relatives and friends. But all those who are joyful and happy in the world take delight in, are devoted to, the five pleasures of sense — they practise and delight their eyes in many kinds of pleasurable forms, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their ears in many kinds of pleasurable sounds of revelry and song, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their sense of smell with many kinds of perfumes of flowers, and fruits, and leaves, and bark, and roots, and sap, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their tongue with many kinds of pleasurable tastes of hard foods and of soft, of syrups, drinks, and beverages, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their sense of touch with many kinds of pleasurable feelings, tender and delicate, exquisite and soft, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their minds with many sorts of conceptions and ideas, pure and impure, good and bad, such as at any time they like the best. You, on the other hand, put a stop to and destroy, IV, 8, 59- 0F MILINDA THE KING. 1 83 maim and mangle, put a drag on and restrain the development of your eye, and ear, and nose, and tongue, and body, and mind. Therefore is your body afflicted and your mind afflicted too, and your body being afflicted you feel bodily discomfort and pain, and your minds being afflicted you feel mental discomfort too and pain. Did not even Magandiya, the ascetic, find fault with the Blessed One, and say1 : [314] " The Samara Gotama is a destroyer of increase 2 ? " ' 59. ' Nirvana, O king, has no pain in it. It is bliss unalloyed. When you, O king, maintain that Nirvana is painful, that which you call " painful " is not Nirvana. It is the preliminary stage to the realisation of Nirvana, it is the process of seeking after Nirvana. Nirvana itself is bliss pure and simple, there is no pain mixed with it. And I will give you an explanation of this. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of sovranty which kings enjoy ? ' ' Most certainly/ ' And is there no pain, O king, mingled with that bliss ? ' ' No, Sir/
2Nirvana itself is bliss pure and simple, there is no pain mixed with it. And I will give you an explanation of this. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of sovranty which kings enjoy ? ' ' Most certainly/ ' And is there no pain, O king, mingled with that bliss ? ' ' No, Sir/ ' But surely then, O king, why is it that when their frontier provinces have broken out in revolt, the kings, to the end that they may bring the inhabitants of those provinces into subjection again, leave their homes, attended by their ministers and chiefs, their 1 In the Magandiya Sutta, No. 75 in the Ma^gv^ima Nikaya, where the speech will be found at I, 502. 2 Bhutaha/£/£e. See Mr. Trenckner's valuable note. Hina/i- kumburS, p. 456, quotes the Pali, reading Bhutahu, and rendering it eanabhiwrz'ddhi-kara?zayek. 184 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 60. soldiers and their guards, and marching over ground even and uneven, tormented the while by gnats and mosquitoes and hot winds, engage in fierce fights, and suffer the presentiment of death ? ' * That, venerable Nagasena, is not what is called the bliss of sovranty. It is only the preliminary stage in the pursuit of that bliss. It is after they have thus, in pain, sought after sovranty, that they enjoy the bliss thereof. And thus that bliss, Nagasena, is itself unmixed with pain, for the bliss of sovranty is one thing, and the pain another/ ' Just so, O king, is Nirvana all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. Those who are in quest of Nirvana afflict their minds and bodies it is true, restrain themselves in standing, walking, sitting, lying, and in food, suppress their sleep, keep their senses in subjection, abandon their very body and their life. But it is after they have thus, in pain, sought after Nirvana, that they enjoy the Nirvana which is bliss unalloyed — as kings do the bliss of sovranty after their foes have been put down. Thus is it, O king, that Nirvana is all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. For Nirvana is one thing, and the pain another. [315] 60. 'And hear another explanation, O king, of the same thing. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of knowledge which those teachers have who have passed through their course?' 1 Yes, Sir, there is/ 1 Well, is that bliss of knowledge alloyed with pain ? ' 4 No/ 4 What then, O king, is the good of their afflicting IV, 8, 6o. OF MILINDA THE KING. 1 85 themselves by bowing down before and standing up in the presence of their teachers ; by drawing water, and sweeping out the cell, and placing tooth-sticks and washing- water ready; by living upon scraps left over ; by doing service in shampooing, and bathing, and washing of the feet ; by suppressing their own will, and acting according to the will of others ; by sleeping in discomfort, and feeding on distasteful food ? '
3' ' That, Nagasena, is not the bliss of knowledge, it is a preliminary stage in the pursuit thereof. It is after the teachers have, in pain, sought after know- ledge, that they enjoy its bliss. Thus is it, Nagasena, that the bliss of knowledge is unalloyed with pain. For that bliss of knowledge is one thing, and the pain another.' ' Just so, O king, is Nirvana all bliss, and there is n> pain mingled with it. Those who are in quest of Nrva/za afflict their minds and bodies it is true, resfain themselves in standing, walking, sitting^ lying and in food, suppress their sleep, keep their senses in subjection, abandon their very body and their hre. But it is after they have thus, in pain, sought vfter Nirvana, that they enjoy the Nir- vana whnh is bliss unalloyed — as teachers do the bliss of knowledge. Thus is it, O king, that Nirvana is all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. Fcr Nirv^a is one thing, and the pain another.' ' Very good, Nagasena ! That is so, and I accept it as you say.' [Here ends the dilemma as to the pain of Nirvana.] 1 86 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 61. [DILEMMA THE EIGHTIETH. THE OUTWARD FORM OF NIRVAiVA.] 61. 'Venerable Nagasena, this Nirvana that you are always talking of — can you make clear by meta- phor, or explanation, or reason, or argument, the form, or figure, or duration \ or measure of it ? ' [316] ' Nirvana, O king, has nothing similar to it. By no metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument can its form, or figure, or duration, or measure be made clear.' * That I cannot believe, Nagasena, — that of Nirvana, which really after all is a condition that exists 2, it should be so impossible in any way to make us understand either the form, or figure, or duration, or measure ! Give me some explanation of this.' 62. 'Very well, O king, I will do so. Is there such a thing, O king, as the great ocean ? ' ' Yes, the ocean exists/ * Well, suppose some one were to ask you, saying : " How much water is there, your majesty, in the sea, and how many are the creatures that dwell therein ?" When that question had been put, how would you answer him ? ' ' I should reply thus to such a question : " My good fellow ! this is an unaskable thing that you ask me. No one ought to ask such a question. It 1 So the Pali (vaya^). But the Sinhalese has was ay a, ' dwell- ing-place/ throughout §§56 and 57. 2 Atthi-dhammassa nibbanassa. The Sinhalese, p. 459, translates 'the form, &c, of the quality (dharma) of Nirvana' — as if the Pali were nibbana-dhammassa. But see next page, note 2. TV, 8, 64. OF MILINDA THE KING. 187 is a point that should be left alone. The physicists l have never examined into the ocean in that way. And no one can measure the water there, or count the creatures who dwell therein." Thus, Sir, should I make reply.'
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
Romanised transliteration as printed by the translator, not the original script. This is what we hold.
1da Sylva's version in English from the Sinhalese, which may account for the fact that there is scarcely a sentence which is not misleading. l82 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 58. ' Nirvana is all bliss, O king. There is no inter- mingling of pain in it/ ' That, Sir, is a saying we cannot believe — that Nirvana is all bliss. On this point, Nagasena, we maintain that Nirvana must be alloyed with pain. And there is a reason for our adopting that view. What is that reason ? Those, Nagasena, who seek after Nirvana are seen to practise exertion and application both of body and of mind, restraint in standing, walking, sitting, lying, and eating, sup- pression of sleep, subjugation of the organs of sense, renunciation of wealth and corn, of dear relatives and friends. But all those who are joyful and happy in the world take delight in, are devoted to, the five pleasures of sense — they practise and delight their eyes in many kinds of pleasurable forms, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their ears in many kinds of pleasurable sounds of revelry and song, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their sense of smell with many kinds of perfumes of flowers, and fruits, and leaves, and bark, and roots, and sap, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their tongue with many kinds of pleasurable tastes of hard foods and of soft, of syrups, drinks, and beverages, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their sense of touch with many kinds of pleasurable feelings, tender and delicate, exquisite and soft, such as at any time they like the best — they practise and delight their minds with many sorts of conceptions and ideas, pure and impure, good and bad, such as at any time they like the best. You, on the other hand, put a stop to and destroy, IV, 8, 59- 0F MILINDA THE KING. 1 83 maim and mangle, put a drag on and restrain the development of your eye, and ear, and nose, and tongue, and body, and mind. Therefore is your body afflicted and your mind afflicted too, and your body being afflicted you feel bodily discomfort and pain, and your minds being afflicted you feel mental discomfort too and pain. Did not even Magandiya, the ascetic, find fault with the Blessed One, and say1 : [314] " The Samara Gotama is a destroyer of increase 2 ? " ' 59. ' Nirvana, O king, has no pain in it. It is bliss unalloyed. When you, O king, maintain that Nirvana is painful, that which you call " painful " is not Nirvana. It is the preliminary stage to the realisation of Nirvana, it is the process of seeking after Nirvana. Nirvana itself is bliss pure and simple, there is no pain mixed with it. And I will give you an explanation of this. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of sovranty which kings enjoy ? ' ' Most certainly/ ' And is there no pain, O king, mingled with that bliss ? ' ' No, Sir/
2Nirvana itself is bliss pure and simple, there is no pain mixed with it. And I will give you an explanation of this. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of sovranty which kings enjoy ? ' ' Most certainly/ ' And is there no pain, O king, mingled with that bliss ? ' ' No, Sir/ ' But surely then, O king, why is it that when their frontier provinces have broken out in revolt, the kings, to the end that they may bring the inhabitants of those provinces into subjection again, leave their homes, attended by their ministers and chiefs, their 1 In the Magandiya Sutta, No. 75 in the Ma^gv^ima Nikaya, where the speech will be found at I, 502. 2 Bhutaha/£/£e. See Mr. Trenckner's valuable note. Hina/i- kumburS, p. 456, quotes the Pali, reading Bhutahu, and rendering it eanabhiwrz'ddhi-kara?zayek. 184 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 60. soldiers and their guards, and marching over ground even and uneven, tormented the while by gnats and mosquitoes and hot winds, engage in fierce fights, and suffer the presentiment of death ? ' * That, venerable Nagasena, is not what is called the bliss of sovranty. It is only the preliminary stage in the pursuit of that bliss. It is after they have thus, in pain, sought after sovranty, that they enjoy the bliss thereof. And thus that bliss, Nagasena, is itself unmixed with pain, for the bliss of sovranty is one thing, and the pain another/ ' Just so, O king, is Nirvana all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. Those who are in quest of Nirvana afflict their minds and bodies it is true, restrain themselves in standing, walking, sitting, lying, and in food, suppress their sleep, keep their senses in subjection, abandon their very body and their life. But it is after they have thus, in pain, sought after Nirvana, that they enjoy the Nirvana which is bliss unalloyed — as kings do the bliss of sovranty after their foes have been put down. Thus is it, O king, that Nirvana is all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. For Nirvana is one thing, and the pain another. [315] 60. 'And hear another explanation, O king, of the same thing. Is there such a thing, O king, as the bliss of knowledge which those teachers have who have passed through their course?' 1 Yes, Sir, there is/ 1 Well, is that bliss of knowledge alloyed with pain ? ' 4 No/ 4 What then, O king, is the good of their afflicting IV, 8, 6o. OF MILINDA THE KING. 1 85 themselves by bowing down before and standing up in the presence of their teachers ; by drawing water, and sweeping out the cell, and placing tooth-sticks and washing- water ready; by living upon scraps left over ; by doing service in shampooing, and bathing, and washing of the feet ; by suppressing their own will, and acting according to the will of others ; by sleeping in discomfort, and feeding on distasteful food ? '
3' ' That, Nagasena, is not the bliss of knowledge, it is a preliminary stage in the pursuit thereof. It is after the teachers have, in pain, sought after know- ledge, that they enjoy its bliss. Thus is it, Nagasena, that the bliss of knowledge is unalloyed with pain. For that bliss of knowledge is one thing, and the pain another.' ' Just so, O king, is Nirvana all bliss, and there is n> pain mingled with it. Those who are in quest of Nrva/za afflict their minds and bodies it is true, resfain themselves in standing, walking, sitting^ lying and in food, suppress their sleep, keep their senses in subjection, abandon their very body and their hre. But it is after they have thus, in pain, sought vfter Nirvana, that they enjoy the Nir- vana whnh is bliss unalloyed — as teachers do the bliss of knowledge. Thus is it, O king, that Nirvana is all bliss, and there is no pain mingled with it. Fcr Nirv^a is one thing, and the pain another.' ' Very good, Nagasena ! That is so, and I accept it as you say.' [Here ends the dilemma as to the pain of Nirvana.] 1 86 THE QUESTIONS AND PUZZLES IV, 8, 61. [DILEMMA THE EIGHTIETH. THE OUTWARD FORM OF NIRVAiVA.] 61. 'Venerable Nagasena, this Nirvana that you are always talking of — can you make clear by meta- phor, or explanation, or reason, or argument, the form, or figure, or duration \ or measure of it ? ' [316] ' Nirvana, O king, has nothing similar to it. By no metaphor, or explanation, or reason, or argument can its form, or figure, or duration, or measure be made clear.' * That I cannot believe, Nagasena, — that of Nirvana, which really after all is a condition that exists 2, it should be so impossible in any way to make us understand either the form, or figure, or duration, or measure ! Give me some explanation of this.' 62. 'Very well, O king, I will do so. Is there such a thing, O king, as the great ocean ? ' ' Yes, the ocean exists/ * Well, suppose some one were to ask you, saying : " How much water is there, your majesty, in the sea, and how many are the creatures that dwell therein ?" When that question had been put, how would you answer him ? ' ' I should reply thus to such a question : " My good fellow ! this is an unaskable thing that you ask me. No one ought to ask such a question. It 1 So the Pali (vaya^). But the Sinhalese has was ay a, ' dwell- ing-place/ throughout §§56 and 57. 2 Atthi-dhammassa nibbanassa. The Sinhalese, p. 459, translates 'the form, &c, of the quality (dharma) of Nirvana' — as if the Pali were nibbana-dhammassa. But see next page, note 2. TV, 8, 64. OF MILINDA THE KING. 187 is a point that should be left alone. The physicists l have never examined into the ocean in that way. And no one can measure the water there, or count the creatures who dwell therein." Thus, Sir, should I make reply.'
The source text as printed, transcribed diplomatically. Where the source language uses a non-Latin script that reaches us only through a Victorian romanisation, this layer is labelled transliteration, because that is what we hold.
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