Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II — trans. T. W. and C. A. F. Rhys Davids (1910)

4. So Payasi, the chieftain, surrounded by the brahmins and householders of Setavya, came to the Si^sapatree Grove, and finding the venerable Kassapa, exchanged with him the greetings and compliments of politeness and courtesy, and took his seat on one side. [319] And as to the brahmins and householders of Setavya, some of them bowed before the venerable Kassapa and took their seats on one side ; some of them exchanged with him the greetings and compliments of politeness and courtesy and then took their

1 The expression is somewhat ambiguous. See the note on 1, 145.

D. ii. 320. REBIRTH AND KARMA. 35 I

seats on one side ; some of them saluted him with joined hands and took their seats on one side ; some of them called out their name and family and did likewise, some of them took their seats on one side in silence.

5. And when he was seated Payasi spoke thus to the venerable Master Kassapa : —

' I, Master Kassapa, am of this opinion, of these views : — Neither is there another world, nor are there beings reborn not of parents, nor is there fruit or result of deeds well done or ill done.'

' I, Prince, have neither seen or heard of any one holding such a view, such an opinion. How then can you declare, as you do, that " there neither is another world, nor rebirth as inheritor of the highest heavens, nor fruit or result of deeds well-done or ill-done " ? Wherefore, Prince, I will cross-question you herein, and do you reply in what way you may approve. What think you, yon moon and sun, are they in this world or in another world, are they divine or human ? '

' This moon and sun, Master Kassapa, are in another world, not in this, they are gods, not human.'

' Then, Prince, let this be taken as evidence that there is both another world, and rebirth as inheritor of the highest heavens, and fruit and result of deeds done well or ill:'

6. ' Even though Master Kassapa says thus, it still appears to me that not one of these things exists.'

' Have you, Prince, any proof to establish that they do not exist ? '

[320] ' I have, Master Kassapa.'

' As how ? '

' Here it is, Master Kassapa. I have had friends, companions, relatives, men of the same blood as myself, who have taken life, committed thefts, or fornication, have uttered lying, slanderous, abusive, gossiping speech, have been covetous, of malign thoughts, of evil opinions. They anon have fallen ill of mortal suffering and disease. When I had understood that they would not recover from that illness, I have gone to them and

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said : — " According to the views and opinion held, sirs, by certain wanderers and brahmins, they who break the precepts of morality, when the body breaks up after death, are reborn into the Waste, the Woeful Way, the Fallen Place, the Pit. Now you, sirs, have broken those precepts. If what those reverent wanderers and brahmins say is true, this, sirs, will be your fate. If these things should befall you, sirs, come to me and tell me, saying : — ' There is another world, there is rebirth not of parents, there is fruit and result of deeds well-done and ill-done.' You, sirs, are for me trustworthy and reliable, and what you say you have seen, will be even so, just as if I myself had seen it." They have consented to do this, saying, " Very good," [321] but they have neither come themselves, nor dispatched a messenger. Now this, Master Kassapa, is evidence for me that there is neither another world, nor rebirth not by human parents, nor fruit or result of deeds well done and ill.'