Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II — trans. T. W. and C. A. F. Rhys Davids (1910)

4 So they who are living do not see the soul of you who are living entering or leaving you (when you dream). How then will you see the soul of a dead person entering or leaving him ? Let this be a proof to you, Prince, that those things do exist.'

16. 'Even though Master Kassapa says so, it still appears to me that not one of those things exists.'

' Have you any further evidence, Prince ? '

' I have, Master Kassapa.'

4 As how ? '

' Take the case, Master K assapa, of men taking a felon red-handed, and bringing him up saying : — " My lord, we caught this felon in the act. Inflict what penalty

1 Velamika, 'very young and childish,' says Buddhaghosa here.
Above, p. 231, it seems to be a clan name, but used in a similar
connexion.

p. 60

you wish." And I say: — " Well then, my masters, take this man and weigh him alive ; then strangle him with a bowstring and weigh him again." And they do so. While he lives, he is more buoyant, supple, wieldy. When he is dead, he is weightier, stiffer, unwieldier. This, Master Kassapa, is evidence for me that there is neither another world, nor rebirth other than by human parentage, nor fruit nor result of deeds well-done or ill-done.'

1 7. ' Well now, Prince, I will give you a simile [335], for by way of a simile some wise men discern the meaning of what is said. It is just as if, Prince, a man were to weigh in a balance a ball of iron that had been heated all day, and was burning and glowing with heat ; and were to weigh it later on in a balance when it was cool and quenched. When would that ball of iron be lighter, softer and more plastic ? When it was burning and glowing with heat, or when it was cool and quenched ? '

' When, Master Kassapa, that ball of iron, with its lambent and gaseous concomitants, is burning and glowing with heat, then it is lighter, softer, more plastic, but when, without those lambent and gaseous concomitants, it is cool and quenched, it is then heavier, more rigid, less plastic'

' Even so, Prince, when this body has its concomitants of life, heat and intelligence, then it is lighter, softer and more plastic. But when it lacks those three concomitants, then it is heavier, more rigid, less plastic.

1 Let this, Prince, be a proof to you that there is both another world, rebirth other than of parents, and fruit and result of deeds well and ill-done.'

1 8. ' Even though Master Jvassapa says this, it still appears to me that not one of those things exists.'

' Have you any further evidence, Prince ? '

' I have, Master Kassapa.'

' What might that be like ?'

' Take the case, Master Kassapa, of the men taking a felon red-handed and bringing him up, saying : — " My lord, this felon was caught in the act. [336] Inflict onD. ii. 337. REBIRTH AND KARMA. 36 1 him what penalty you wish." And I say: — " Well, my masters, kill this man by stripping off cuticle and skin and flesh and sinews and bones and marrow." They do so. And when he is half dead, I say : — " Lay him on his back, and perhaps we may see the soul of him pass out." And they do so, but we see the passing of no soul. Then I say: — "Well then, lay him bent over ... on his side ... on the other side . . . stand him up . . . stand him on his head . . . smite him with your hand . . . with clods ... on this side ... on that side ... all over; perhaps we may see the soul of him pass out." And they do so, but we see the passing of no soul. He has sight and there are forms, but the organ does not perceive them ; he has hearing and there are sounds, but the organ does not perceive them ; he has smell and there are odours, [337] but the organ does not perceive them, he has a tongue and there are tastes, but the organ does not perceive them ; he has a body and there are tangibles, but the organ does not perceive them. This, Master Kassapa, is for me evidence that there is neither another world, nor rebirth other than of parents, nor fruit or result of deeds well or ill-done.'