The Questions of King Milinda, Part I — SBE Vol. 35 (trans. Rhys Davids, 1890)
English·1879–1910·trans. T. W. Rhys Davids·277 passages
The text · part 5 of 14
When the doors of the ear are thrown open, can it do so? Can it then not only hear sounds, but see sights, experience tastes, smell odours, feel touch, and discern conditions ? And so with each of its windows ?’
‘No, Sir.’
[56] ‘Then these powers are not united one to another indiscriminately. Now again, great king, if Dinna here were to go outside and stand in the gateway, would you be aware that he had done so ?’
‘Yes, I should know it.’
‘ And if the same Dinna were to come back again, and stand before you, would you be aware of his having done so ?’
1 It is odd he does not say six.
p. 6
‘Yes, I should know it.’
‘ Well, great king, would the living principle within discern, in like manner, if anything possessing flavour were laid upon the tongue, its sourness, or its saltness, or its acidity, or its pungency, or its astringency, or its sweetness? ?’
“Yes, it would know it.’
‘But when the flavour had passed into the stomach would it still discern these things ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘Then these powers are not united one to the other indiscriminately. Now suppose, O king, a man were to have a hundred vessels of honey brought and poured into one trough, and then, having had another man’s mouth closed over and tied up, were to have him cast into the trough full of honey. Would he know whether that into which he had been thrown was sweet or whether it was not?’
‘No, Sir.’
‘But why not ?’
‘ Because the honey could not get into his mouth.’
‘Then, great king, these powers are not united one to another indiscriminately 2.’
‘I am not capable of discussing with such a reasoner. Be pleased, Sir, to explain to me how the matter stands.’
Then the Elder convinced Milinda the king with discourse drawn from the Abhidhamma, saying : ‘ It is by reason, O king, of the eye and of forms that sight arises, and those other conditions—contact,
1 This list recurs below, II, 4, 1.
3 That is: ‘ Your “ living principle within” cannot make use of whichever of its windows it pleases. And the simile of a man inside a house does not hold good of the soul.’ See the end of II, 3, 16.
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sensation, idea, thought, abstraction, sense of vitality, and attention ’—arise each simultaneously with its predecessor. And a similar succession of cause and effect arises when each of the other five organs of sense is brought into play. [57] Andso herein there is no such thing as soul (Vedagu) *.’ .
7. The king said: ‘Does thought-perception * arise wherever sight arises‘ ?’
‘Yes, O king, where the one is there is the other.’
‘ And which of the two arises first ?’
‘ First sight, then thought.’
‘Then does the sight issue, as it were, a command to thought, saying: “ Do you spring up there where I have?” or does thought issue command to sight, saying : ‘“ Where you spring up there will I.”’
‘It is not so, great king. There is no intercourse between the one and the other.’
There is no intercourse between the one and the other.’
‘ Then how is it, Sir, that thought arises wherever sight does ?’
‘Because of there being a sloping down, and because of there being a door, and because of there being a habit °, and because of there being an association.’
‘How is that? Give me an illustration of mind arising where sight arises because of there being a sloping down.’
‘Now what do you think, great king? When it rains *, where will the water go to ?’
1 The last four are Aetan4, ekaggaté, givitindriyam, and manasik4ro; and in the Simhalese are simply repeated in their Simhalese form.
® This conclusion is all wrong in Hardy, pp. 457, 458.
5 Mano-vi#aanam. * Kakkhu-viatanam.
5 Kinnatt4, which Hinafi-kumburé renders purudu bewin.
* Deve vassante: ‘when the god rains.’
go THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. II, 3, 7.
‘It will follow the slope of the ground.’
‘And if it were to rain again, where would the water go to ?’
‘It would go the same way as the first water had gone.’
‘What then? Does the first water issue, as it were, command to the second, saying : “Do you go where I have?” Or does the second issue command to the first, saying: “ Whithersoever you go, thither will 1” ?’
‘Itis not so, Sir. There is no intercourse between the two. Each goes its way because of the slope of the ground.’
‘Just so, great king, [58] is it by reason of the natural slope that where sight has arisen there also does thought arise. And neither does the sightperception issue command to the mind-perception, saying: “ Where I have arisen, there do thou also spring up;” nor does the mind-perception inform the sight-perception, saying: ‘Where thou hast arisen, there will I also spring up.” There is no conversation, as it were, between them. All that happens, happens through natural slope.’
‘ Now give me an illustration of there being a door.’
‘What do you think, greatking? Suppose a king had a frontier city, and it was strongly defended with towers and bulwarks, and had only one gateway. Ifa man wanted to leave the city, how would he go out ?’
‘ By the gate, certainly.’
‘ And if another man wanted to leave it, how would he go out ?’
‘The same way as the first.’
‘What then? Would the first man tell the second:
TI, 3, 7. SENSATION AND IDEAS. gI
“ Mind you go out the same way asI do”? Or would the second tell the first: “The way you go out, I shall go out too”?’
‘Certainly not, Sir. There would be no communication between them. They would go that way because that was the gate.’
‘Just so, great king, with thought and sight.’
‘Now give me an illustration of thought arising where sight is because of habit.’
‘What do you think, great king? If one cart went ahead, which way would a second cart go ?’
‘The same as the first.’ .
‘ But would the first tell the second to go where it went, [59] or the second tell the first that it would go where it (the first) had gone ?’
If one cart went ahead, which way would a second cart go ?’
‘The same as the first.’ .
‘ But would the first tell the second to go where it went, [59] or the second tell the first that it would go where it (the first) had gone ?’
‘No, Sir. There would be no communication between the two. The second would follow the first out of habit.’
‘Just so, great king, with sight and thought.’
‘Now give me an illustration of how thought arises, where sight has arisen, through association.’
‘In the art of calculating by using the joints of the fingers as signs or marks’, in the art of arithmetic pure and simple?, in the art of estimating the probable
* Mudd4&. Hinasi-kumburé is here a little fuller than Buddhaghosa at vol. i, p. 95 of the Sumangala. He says: yam se engili purukhi alw& gena sa##4 ko/a kiyana hasta mudra sAstraya, ‘the finger-ring art, so called from seizing on the joints of the fingers, and using them as signs.’
* Ganan&. Hinafi-kumburé says: askhidra wu ganam sAstraya, ‘the art of unbroken counting,’ which is precisely Buddhaghosa’s explanation (confirming the reading we have there adopted), and probably means arithmetic without the aids involved in the last phrase. We have here in that case an interesting peep into thep. 8 yield of growing crops’, and in the art of writing, O king, the beginner is clumsy. But after a certain time with attention and practice he becomes expert. Just so is it that, where sight has arisen, thought too by association springs up.’
And in response to similar questions, the Elder declared that in the same way thought sprang up wherever there was hearing, or taste, or smell, or touch: that in each case it was subsequent to the other, but arose without communication from [60] the natural causes above set out.
8. The king said: ‘Where thought (mental perception *) is, Nagasena, is there always sensation ?’
‘ Yes, where thought arises there is contact, and there is sensation, and there is idea, and there is conceived intention, and there is reflection, and there is investigation 5’
9. ‘ Reverend Sir, what is the distinguishing characteristic of contact (Phassa) ?’
‘Touch *, O king.’
‘But give me an illustration.’
‘It is as when two rams are butting together, O progress of arithmetical knowledge. When our author wrote, the old way of counting on the fingers was still in vogue, but the modern system was coming into general use.
1 Sankhé, literally ‘calculation,’ but which Hardy amplifies into Kshetraya wriksha vilokaya kofa phala pramanaya kiyannawf samkhya sAstraya.
* Mano-vi##ana as all through the last section. The reader must not forget that mano is here strictly an organ of sense, on an exact level with eye, ear, tongue, &c.
5 Xetané, vitakko, and vikdro. See fuller further on, §§ 11, 13, 14.
* Phusana. So also Buddhaghosa at p. 63 of the Sumangala.
‘
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The reader must not forget that mano is here strictly an organ of sense, on an exact level with eye, ear, tongue, &c.
5 Xetané, vitakko, and vikdro. See fuller further on, §§ 11, 13, 14.
* Phusana. So also Buddhaghosa at p. 63 of the Sumangala.
‘p. 93 king. The eye should be regarded as one of those two, the form (object) as the other, and the contact as the union of the two.’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
‘It is as when two cymbals? are clashed together. The one is as the eye, the other as the object, and the junction of the two is like contact.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
10. ‘ Reverend Sir, what is the characteristic mark of sensation (Vedan4) ?’
‘The being experienced, great king, and enjoyed #.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of the man * on whom the king, pleased with a service he has rendered him, should bestow an office. He while living, through that appointment, in the full possession and enjoyment of all the pleasures of sense, would think : “ Formerly I did the king a service. For that the king, pleased with me, gave me this office. It is on that account that I now experience such sensations.’—And it is like the case of the man [61] who having done good deeds is re-born, on the dissolution of the body after death, into some happy conditions of bliss in heaven. He, while living there in the full possession and enjoyment of all the pleasures of sense, would think : “Formerly I must have done good deeds. It is on that account that I now experience such sensations.” Thus is it, great king, that the being experienced and enjoyed is the characteristic mark of sensation.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
1 Sammé4, compare Theri Gatha, 893, grt. * Buddhaghosa, loc. cit., only gives the first of these. § See for a similar illustration above, II, 2, 7, p. 76.
p. 11
11. ‘What is the distinguishing characteristic, NAgasena, of idea (Sa#74) ?’
‘Recognition, O king» And what does he recognise ?—blueness and yellowness and redness and whiteness and brownness.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the king’s treasurer, O king, who when he sees, on entering the treasure, objects the property of the king of all those colours, recognises (that they have such). Thus it is, great king, that recognition is the mark of idea.’
‘Very good, NAgasena !’
‘What is the distinguishing characteristic, Nagasena, of the conceived purpose (Ketan4) ?’
‘The being conceived, O king, and the being prepared ®.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
Thus it is, great king, that recognition is the mark of idea.’
‘Very good, NAgasena !’
‘What is the distinguishing characteristic, Nagasena, of the conceived purpose (Ketan4) ?’
‘The being conceived, O king, and the being prepared ®.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of a man, O king, who should prepare poison, and both drink of it himself, and give of it to others to drink. He himself would suffer pain, and so would they. In the same way some individual, having thought out with intention some evil deed, on the dissolution of the body after . death, would be reborn into some unhappy state of woe in purgatory, and so also would those who followed his advice.—And it is like the case of a
1 So also Buddhaghosa, Sumangala, p. 63.
* Buddhaghosa, loc. cit., gives no mark of Xetan4, but he gives both it and ‘the being prepared’ as the marks of the Confections. It is not clear from the Milinda alone how to render the term Xetan4, but I follow Anguttara III, 77 (where it is placed on a level with aspiration), and Dhamma Samgami 5 (where it is said to be born of the contact of mind, perception, and exertion).
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man, O king, who should prepare a mixture of ghee, butter, oil, honey and molasses, and should both drink thereof himself and give of it to others to drink. He himself would have pleasure, and so would they. [62] In the same way some individual, having thought out with intention some good deed, will be reborn, on the dissolution of the body after death, into some happy state of bliss in heaven, and so also would those who follow his advice. Thus is it, great king, that the being conceived, and the being prepared, are marks of the conceived purpose.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’
. ‘What, Nagasena, is the distinguishing characteristic of perception (Viz#4Ana) ?’
‘ Recognition ', great king.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of the guardian of a city who, when seated at the cross roads in the middle of the city, could see a man coming from the East, or the South, or the West, or the North. In the same way, O king, he knows an object which he sees with his eye, or a sound which he hears with his ear, or an odour which he smells by his nose, or a taste which he experiences with his tongue, or a touchable thing which he touches with his body, or a quality that he recognises by his mind. Thus is it, great king, that knowing is the mark of perception.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
13. ‘What is the distinguishing characteristic, NAgasena, of reflection (Vitakka).
1 VigAnana. So also Buddhaghosa, loc. cit. and below, III, 7, 15, P- 131.
p. 14
‘ The effecting of an aim?’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of a carpenter, great king, who fixes in a joint a well-fashioned piece of wood. Thus is it that the effecting of an aim is the mark of reflection.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
_ II, 3, 14.
‘ The effecting of an aim?’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of a carpenter, great king, who fixes in a joint a well-fashioned piece of wood. Thus is it that the effecting of an aim is the mark of reflection.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
14. ‘What is the distinguishing characteristic, NAgasena, of investigation (Vi#4ra) ?’
‘Threshing out again and again *’
‘ Give mé an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of the copper vessel, which, when it is being beaten into shape [63], makes a sound again and again as it gradually gathers shape*. The beating into shape is to be regarded as reflection, and the sounding again and again as investigation. Thus is it, great king, that threshing out again and again is the mark of investigation.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
Here ends the Third Chapter ‘.
' Appana, which Hina4i-kumburé renders pihifana. Buddhaghosa, p. 63, gives abhiniropana as its mark, which comes to much the same thing.
* Anumaggana. So also Buddhaghosa, loc. cit. p. 63. The word is not in Childers, but see Morris in the Journal of the Pali Text Society, 1886, p. 118.
5’ Anuravati anusandahati. Not in Childers. Hinafkumburé says pasuwa anur4wan4 kere da anuwa pihi/a da.
‘ The following two sections form an appendix to this chapter corresponding to that formed by the last three sections of Book
III, Chapter 7. The numbering of the sections is therefore carried on in both cases.
II, 3, 1g. CONDITIONS. 97
Book II. Cuapter 3.
15. The king said: ‘When those conditions (whose marks you have just specified) have run together, is it possible, by bending them apart one to one side and one to the other!, to make the distinction between them clear, so that one can say: “This is contact, and this sensation, and this idea, and this intention, and this perception, and this reflection, and this investigation?” ?’
‘No: that cannot be done.’
‘ Give me an illustration.’
‘Suppose, O king, the cook in the royal household were to make a syrup or a sauce, and were to put into it curds, and salt, and ginger, and cummin seed *, and pepper, and other ingredients. And suppose the king were to say to him: “ Pick out for me the flavour of the curds, and of the salt, and of the ginger, and of the cummin seed, and of the pepper, and of all the things you have put into it.” Now would it be possible, great king, separating off one from another those flavours that had thus run together,to pick out each one, so that one could say : “ Here is the sourness, and here the saltness, and here the pungency, and here the acidity, and here the astringency, and here the sweetness *” ?’
1 Vinibbhugitva vinibbhugitv4. This question is identical with the one asked of the Buddha at Maggfima Nik4ya 43, p. 293. Compare also p. 233 and Tela Ka/aha Gatha 59.
* This list differs from that in LI, 3, 8, by the addition of vi##ana.
* Giraka. Compare Gataka I, 244; II, 181, 363. Hinaékumburé translates it by duru, and Hardy by ‘onions’ (p. 439).
293. Compare also p. 233 and Tela Ka/aha Gatha 59.
* This list differs from that in LI, 3, 8, by the addition of vi##ana.
* Giraka. Compare Gataka I, 244; II, 181, 363. Hinaékumburé translates it by duru, and Hardy by ‘onions’ (p. 439).
‘ This is the same list as is found above, II, 3, 6; and below, III, 4, 2, and the items are not intended to correspond with the condiments in the list above.
(35) H
p. 16
‘No, that would not be possible [64]. But each flavour would nevertheless be distinctly present by its characteristic sign.’
‘And just so, great king, with respect to those conditions we were discussing.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
16. The Elder said: ‘Is salt, O king, recognisable by the eye ?’
‘Yes, Sir, it is.’
‘ But be careful, O king.’
‘Well then, Sir, is it perceptible by the tongue ?’
‘Yes, that is right.
‘But, Sir, is it only by the tongue that every kind of salt is distinguished ?’
‘Yes, every kind.’
‘If that be so, Sir, why do bullocks bring whole cart-loads of it? Is it not salt and nothing else that ought to be so brought ?’
‘It is impossible to bring salt by itself. But all these conditions! have run together into one, and produced the distinctive thing called salt* (For instance) : salt is heavy, too. But is it possible, O king, to weigh salt ?’
1 Not saltness only, but white colour, &c. &c.
* He means the king to draw the conclusion that that distinct thing is only recognisable by the tongue; so the senses are not interchangeable. In other words it is true that salt seems to be recognised by the sight, as when people load it into carts they do not stop to taste it. But what they see is not salt, what they weigh is not salt, it is whiteness and weight. And the fact of its being salt is an inference they draw. So, great king, your simile of the soul being inside the body, and using the five senses, as a man inside a house uses windows, does not hold good. See the conclusion above of II, 3, 6, p. 88.
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‘ Certainly, Sir.’
‘Nay, great king, it is not the salt you weigh, it is the weight.’
‘You are ready, NAgasena, in argument.’
Here ends the questioning of Nagasena by Milinda'.
1 This is again most odd. One would expect, ‘Here ends the questioning as to characteristic signs.’ See the note at the end of last chapter.
p. 1
BOOK III.
VIMATI-KKHEDANA-PANHO. THE REMOVAL OF DIFFICULTIES.
CHAPTER 4},
1, [65] The king said: ‘Are the five Ayatanas, NAgasena, (eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body,) produced by various actions, or by one action?’ (that is, the result of various Karmas, or of one Karma.)
‘ By various actions, not by one.’
‘ Give me an illustration.’
‘ Now, what do you think, O king? If I were to sow in one field five kinds of seed, would the produce of those various seeds be of different kinds ?’
‘Yes, certainly.’
‘Well, just so with respect to the production of Ayatanas.’
‘Very good, Nagasena *!’
If I were to sow in one field five kinds of seed, would the produce of those various seeds be of different kinds ?’
‘Yes, certainly.’
‘Well, just so with respect to the production of Ayatanas.’
‘Very good, Nagasena *!’
2. The king said: ‘Why is it, Nagasena, that all men are not alike, but some are short-lived and some long-lived, some sickly and some healthy, some ugly and some beautiful, some without influence and some of great power,some poor and some wealthy,some low born and some high born,some stupid and some wise?’
1 The chapters go straight on because Books II and III are really only parts of one Book. See above, p. 4.
* The meaning here is not easy to follow, as the word Ayatana is used either for the organs of sense, or for the objects of sense; and there is nothing in the context to show which is meant. Probably the idea is that good sight, hearing, &c. in one birth are each the result of a separate Karma in the last birth. But I am by no means sure of this, and the Simhalese (p. 76) is just as ambiguous as the Pali.
TIT, 4, 3- RENUNCIATION. IOI
The Elder replied: ‘Why is it that all vegetables are not alike, but some sour, and some salt, and some pungent, and some acid, and some astringent, and some sweet ?’
‘I fancy, Sir, it is because they come from different kinds of seeds.’
‘And just so, great king, are the differences you have mentioned among men to be explained. For it has been said by the Blessed One: “Beings, O brahmin, have each their own Karma, are inheritors of Karma, belong to the tribe of their Karma, are relatives by Karma, have each their Karma as their ° protecting overlord. It is Karma that divides them up into low and high and the like divisions '.”’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
3. The king said: ‘You told me, Nagasena, that your renunciation was to the end that this sorrow might perish away, and no further sorrow might spring up ®.’
[66] ‘ Yes, that is so.’
‘But is that renunciation brought about by previous effort, or to be striven after now, in this present time ?’
The Elder replied: ‘ Effort is now concerned with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.’
‘Give me an illustration 3,’
1 Mr. Trenckner points out that this quotation is from the Magghima, No. 135. The doctrine is laid down frequently elsewhere also in the Pifakas. See, for instance, Anguttara IV, 197 (pp. 202-203 of Dr. Morris’s edition for the Pali Text Society).
2 Above, II, 1, 5, p. 50, and compare I, 38.
5 These three illustrations recur (nearly) below, III, 7, 3, pp. 125-126.
p. 3
‘Now what do you think, O king? Is it when you feel thirst that you would set to work to have a well or an artificial lake dug out, with the intention of getting some water to drink ?’
‘ Certainly not, Sir.’
‘Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
‘Now what do you think, O king? Is it when you feel hungry that you set to work to have fields ploughed and seed planted and crops reaped with the intention of getting some food to eat ?’
‘Certainly not, Sir.’
‘Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do.’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
‘Now what do you think, O king? Is it when the battle is set in array against you that you set to work to have a moat dug, and a rampart put up, and a watch tower built, and a stronghold formed, and stores of food collected? Is it then that you would have yourself taught the management of elephants, or horsemanship, or the use of the chariot and the bow, or the art of fencing ?’
‘Certainly not, Sir.’
‘ Just so, great king, is effort concerned now with what still remains to be done, former effort has accomplished what it had to do. For it has been thus said, O king, by the Blessed One:
“ Betimes let each wise man work out That which he sees to be his weal ! Not with the carter’s mode of thought, but firm
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Let him, with resolution, step right out.
As a carter who has left the smooth high road, And turned to byways rough, broods ill at ease !— (Like him who hazards all at dice, and fails) —
So the weak mind who still neglects the good, And follows after evil, grieves at heart,
When fallen into the power of death, as he,
The ruined gamester, in his hour of need *.”’
(67] ‘Very good, Nagasena !’
4. The king said: ‘You (Buddhists *) say thus: ‘The fire of purgatory is very much more fierce than an ordinary fire. A small stone cast into an ordinary fire may smoke for a day without being destroyed ; but a rock as big as an upper chamber cast into the furnace of purgatory would be that moment destroyed.” That is a statement I cannot believe. Now, on the other hand you say thus: ‘Whatsoever beings are there reborn, though they
1 Ghayati. It is an odd coincidence that this word, which means either to burn or to meditate, according to the root from which it is derived, can be rendered here either ‘ burn’ or ‘ brood’ in English. In fact it is the second, not the first, root that is here intended, as is plain from such passages as GAtaka III, 354, where the compound pagg/dyati means ‘to brood over a thing.’
2 Quoted from the Samyutta Nikaya II, 3, 2 (p. 57 in M. Feer’s edition, published by the P4li Text Society). The readings there differ slightly from those of our text here, and the verses are put into the mouth of Khema, the god, instead of being ascribed to the Buddha. Hinafi-kumburé (p. 79) agrees with M. Léon Feer in reading mando for mano in the last line; and I have followed them in my translation. There are several stanzas in the GA&taka book of carters lost in the desert, but there is nothing to identify any one of them with the story referred to.
There are several stanzas in the GA&taka book of carters lost in the desert, but there is nothing to identify any one of them with the story referred to.
burn for hundreds of thousands of years in purgatory, yet are they not destroyed.” That too is a statement I don’t believe.’
The Elder said: ‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the females of sharks! and crocodiles and tortoises and peacocks and pigeons eat hard bits of stone and gravel ?’
‘Yes, Sir. They do.’
‘What then? Are these hard things, when they have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, destroyed ?’
‘Yes, they are destroyed.’
‘And the embryo that may be inside the same animals,—is that too destroyed ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘ But why not.’
‘I suppose, Sir, it escapes destruction by the influence of Karma.’
‘Just so, great king, it is through the influence of Karma that beings, though they have been for thousands of years in purgatory, are not destroyed. If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted ?,”’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
1 It may be noticed that the particular feminine forms chosen are in each case unusual, being in inf instead of the simple f. The first animal, the Makarinf, is said by Childers to be a mythical animal, but it is clear from Buddhaghosa on Xullavagga V, 1, 4, that an ordinary animal is meant, and that is so I think here, though the translation ‘shark ’ is conjectural.
* From Anguttara III, 35, 4 (p. 141 of Dr. Morris’s edition for the Pali Text Society).
p. 105
‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the females of lions and tigers and panthers and dogs eat hard bits of bone and flesh ?’
‘Yes, they eat such things.’
‘What then? are such hard things, [68] when they have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, destroyed ?’
‘Yes, they are destroyed ?’
‘And the embryo that may be inside the same animals,—is that too destroyed ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘But why not ?’
‘I suppose, Sir, it escapes destruction by the influence of Karma.’
‘Just so, great king, it is by the influence of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, are not destroyed.’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
‘Now what do you think, O king? Do not the tender women—wives of the Yonakas, and nobles, and brahmins, and householders—eat hard cakes and meat ?’
‘Yes, they eat such hard things.’
‘And when those hard things have got into the stomach, into the interior of the abdomen, are not they destroyed ?’
‘Yes, they are.’
‘But the children in their womb,—are they destroyed ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘And why not ?’
‘I suppose, Sir, they escape destruction by the influence of Karma ?’
‘Just so, great king, it is through the influence
p. 5
of Karma that beings in purgatory, though they burn for thousands of years, yet are they not destroyed. If they are reborn there, there do they grow up, and there do they die. For this, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One: “ He does not die until that evil Karma is exhausted.”’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
5. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, your people say that the world rests on water, the water on air, the air on space’. This saying also I cannot believe.’
Then the Elder brought water in a regulation water-pot 7, and convinced king Milinda, saying: ‘As this water is supported by the atmosphere, so is that water supported by air.’
‘Very good, Nagasena ! '
6. The king said : ‘Is cessation Nirvaza’?’ ‘Yes, your Majesty’ [69].
‘ How is that, Nagasena ?’
‘All foolish individuals, O king, take pleasure in
’ This is not a distinctively Buddhist belief. It was commonly held at the time by other teachers. Compare ‘ Book of the Great Decease,’ III, 13 (in ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ Sacred Books of the East, vol. xi, p. 45).
2 Dhamma-karakena. The passages show that this was a pot so made, that no water could pass from it except through a filtering medium. When not being actually used the water was no doubt kept at a certain height in it by the pressure of the atmosphere. I do not know of any specimen preserved in our modern museums or figured on ancient bas-reliefs, and the exact shape is unknown. It must be different from the one represented in plate xlviii of Cunningham’s ‘Bhilsa Tope.’ See Xullavagga V, 13, 1 (note); VI, 21, 3; XII, 2, 1; Mah&vamsa, p. 60.
* Nirodho nibbanan ti.
p. 107
the senses and in the objects of sense, find delight in them, continue to cleave to them?. Hence are they carried down by that flood (of human passions), they are not set free from birth, old age, and death, from grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair,— they are not set free, I say, from suffering. But the wise, O king, the disciple of the noble ones, neither takes pleasure in those things, nor finds delight in them, nor continues cleaving to them. And inasmuch as he does not, in him craving? ceases, and by the cessation of craving grasping? ceases, and by the cessation of grasping becoming * ceases, and when becoming has ceased birth ceases, and with its cessation birth, old age, and death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair cease to exist. Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’
7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’
Thus is the cessation brought about the end of all that aggregation of pain. Thus is it that cessation is Nirvaza,’ ‘Very good, Nagasena !’
7. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, do all men receive Nirvana ?’
‘Not all, O king. But he who walks righteously, who admits those conditions which ought to be admitted, perceives clearly those conditions which ought to be clearly perceived, abandons those conditions which ought to be abandoned, practises himself in those conditions which ought to be practised, realises those conditions which ought to be realised— he receives Nirvaza.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
1 Agghosaya tisfhanti. Compare Anguttara II, 4, 6, and Theri Gatha, 794. * Tanha, Upaddana, Bhava.
p. 8
8. The king said: ‘ Venerable Nagasena, does he who does not receive Nirvana know how happy a state Nirvama is! ?’
‘ Yes, he knows it.’
‘ But how can he know that without his receiving Nirvana ?’
‘Now what do you think, O king? Do those whose hands and feet have not been cut off know how sad a thing it is to have them cut off?’
‘Yes, Sir, that they know.’
‘But how do they know it ?’
‘Well, by hearing the sound of the lamentation of those whose hands and feet have been cut off, they know it.’
[70] ‘Just so, great king, it is by hearing the glad words of those who have seen Nirvama, that they who have not received it know how happy a state it is.
‘Very good, NAgasena!’
Here ends the Fourth Chapter.
1 The opposite point (whether he who has Nirvana, knows that he has it) is discussed above, II, 2.
p. 109
Boox III. Cuapter 5.
1. The king said: ‘Have you, NAgasena, seen the Buddha ?’
‘No, Sire.’
‘Then have your teachers seen the Buddha ?’
‘No, Sire.’
‘ Then, venerable NAgasena, there is no Buddha?!’
‘ But, great king, have you seen the river Uha in the Him4laya mountains ?’
‘No, Sir.’
‘Or has your father seen it ?’
‘No, Sir.’
‘Then, your Majesty, is there therefore no such river ?’
‘It is there. Though neither I nor my father has seen it, it is nevertheless there.’
‘Just so, great king, though neither I nor my teachers have seen the Blessed One, nevertheless there was such a person.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
2. The king said: ‘Is the Buddha, Nagasena, pre-eminent ?’
‘Yes, he is incomparable.’
‘But how do you know of one you have never seen that he is pre-eminent.’
‘Now what do you think, O king? They who have never seen the ocean would they know con-
1 This dialogue is so far identical with VI, 1,1. It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174.
p. 3
It is a kind of parody on Gotama’s own argument about the Brahmans and Brahma (‘Have they seen God,’ &c.) in the Tevigga Sutta I, r2- 15, translated in my ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 172-174.
p. 3
cerning it: “ Deep, unmeasurable, unfathomable is the mighty ocean. Into it do the five great rivers flow—the Ganges, the Jumna, the Afiravatt, the Sarabhai, and the Maht—and yet is there in it no appearance of being more empty or more full!” ?’
‘Yes, they would know that.’
‘Just so, great king, when I think of the mighty disciples who have passed away then do I know that the Buddha is incomparable.’ [71]
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
3. The king said: ‘Is it possible, NAgasena, for others to know how incomparable the Buddha is ?’
‘Yes, they may know it.’
‘But how can they ?’
‘Long, long ago, O king, there was a master of writing, by name Tissa the Elder, and many are the years gone by since he has died. How can people know of him ?’
‘ By his writing, Sir.’
‘Just so, great king, whosoever sees what the Truth! is, he sees what the Blessed One was, for the Truth was preached by the Blessed One.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
4. The king said: ‘Have you, Nagasena, seen what the Truth is?’
‘Have not we disciples, O king, to conduct ourselves our lives long as under the eye of the Buddha, and under his command ? ?’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
1 Dhammam, here nearly=Buddhism. See below, III, 5, ro.
* Mr. Trenckner thinks there is a lacuna here; and Hinafkumburé’s version perhaps supports this. He renders the passage, « How can a man use a path he does not know? And have not we
III, s, 6. THE SOUL. III
5. The king said: ‘Where there is no transmigration, Nagasena, can there be rebirth ?’
“Yes, there can.’
‘ But how can that be? Give me an illustration.’
‘Suppose a man, O king, were to light a lamp from another lamp, can it be said that the one transmigrates from, or to, the other ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’
‘Give me a further illustration.’ ;
‘Do you recollect, great king, having learnt, when you were a boy, some verse or other from your teacher ?’
‘Yes, I recollect that.’
‘Well then, did that verse transmigrate from your teacher ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
6. The king said: ‘Is there such a thing, Nagasena, as the soul! ?’
‘In the highest sense, O king, there is no such thing?
our lives long to conduct ourselves according to the Vinaya (the rules of the Order), which the Buddha preached, and which are called the eye of the Buddha, and according to the Sikkh4pada (ethics) which he laid down, and which are called his command?’ But there are other passages, no less amplified in the Simhalese, where there is evidently no lacuna in the P4li; and the passage may well have been meant as a kind of riddle, to which the Simhalese supplies the solution.
* Vedagf. See above, II, 3, 6, p. 86 (note).
* Mr. Trenckner thinks there is a Jacuna here. The Simhalese follows the PAli word for word.
p. 7
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
7. [12] The king said: ‘Is there any being, N4gasena, who transmigrates from this body to another ?’
‘No, there is not.’
‘ But if so, would it not get free from its evil deeds.’
‘Yes, if it were not reborn; but if it were, no?.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘Suppose, O king, a man were to steal another man’s mangoes, would the thief deserve punishment?’
‘Yes,’ .
‘But he would not have stolen the mangoes the other set in the ground. Why would he deserve punishment ?’
‘ Because those he stole were the result of those that were planted.’
‘Just so, great king, this name-and-form commits deeds, either pure or impure, and by that Karma another name-and-form is reborn. And therefore is it not set free from its evil deeds ?’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
8. The king said: ‘When deeds are committed, Nagasena, by one name-and-form, what becomes of those deeds ?’
‘ The deeds would follow it, O king, like a shadow that never leaves it *.’
‘Can any one point out those deeds, saying: “‘ Here are those deeds, or there” ?’ ‘No.’
* This is an exact repetition of what we had above, II, 2, 6.
* These last words are a quotation of those that recur at Samyutta III, 2, 10, ro, and Dhammapada, verse 2.
p. 113
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘Now what do you think, O king ? Can any one point out the fruits which a tree has not yet produced, saying: “ Here they are, or there” ?’
‘Certainly not, Sir.’
‘Just so, great king, so long as the continuity of life is not cut off, it is impossible to point out the deeds that are done.’
‘Very good, NAgasena !’
9. [78] The king said: ‘Does he, Nagasena, who is about to be reborn know that he will be born ?’
‘Yes, he knows it, O king.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘Suppose a farmer, O king, a householder, were to put seed in the ground, and it were to rain well, would he know that a crop would be produced.’
“Yes, he would know that.’
‘Just so, great king, does he who is about to be reborn know! that he will be born.’
‘Very good, Nagasena ?!’
10. The king said: ‘Is there such a person as the Buddha, N4gasena ?’
‘Yes.’
‘Can he then, Nagasena, be pointed out as being here or there ?’
‘The Blessed One, O king, has passed away by that kind of passing away in which nothing remains which could tend to the formation of another indi-
1 That is before he is born. 3 This is all very parallel to II, 2, 2.
[35] I
114 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. III, 5, ro.
vidual’. It is not possible to point out the Blessed One as being here or there.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘Now what do you think, O king? When there is a great body of fire blazing, is it possible to point out any one flame that has gone out, that it is here or there ?’
‘No, Sir. That flame has ceased, it has vanished.’
When there is a great body of fire blazing, is it possible to point out any one flame that has gone out, that it is here or there ?’
‘No, Sir. That flame has ceased, it has vanished.’
‘Just so, great king, has the Blessed One passed away by that kind of passing away in which no root remains for the formation of another individual. The Blessed One has come to an end, and it cannot be pointed out of him, that he is here or there. But in the body of his doctrine he can, O king, be pointed out. For the doctrine? was preached by the Blessed One ?’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
'Here ends the Fifth Chapter.
* AnupAdisesa4ya nibbénadhatuyA. 7 Dhamma. See above, III, 5, 3.
Ill, 6, 1. THE BODY. 115
Book III. Cuaprer 6.
1. The king said: ‘Is the body, Nagasena, dear to you recluses ?’
‘No, they love not the body.’
‘Then why do you nourish it and lavish attention upon it ?’
‘In all the times and places, O king, that you have gone down to battle, did you never get wounded by an arrow ?’
‘Yes, that has happened to me.’
‘In such cases, O king, [74] is not the wound anointed with salve, and smeared with oil, and bound up in a bandage.’
‘Yes, such things are done to it.’
‘What then? Is the wound dear to you that you treat it so tenderly, and lavish such attention upon it?’
‘No, it is not dear to me in spite of all that, which is only done that the flesh may grow again.’
‘Just so, great king, with the recluses and the body. Without cleaving to it do they bear about the body for the sake of righteousness of life. The body, O king, has been declared by the Blessed One to be like a wound. And therefore merely as a sore, and without cleaving to it, do the recluses bear about the body. For it has been said by the Blessed One:
“Covered with clammy skin, an impure thing and foul, Nine-apertured, it oozes, like a sore?.”’
‘Well answered, Nagasena !’
1 I have not been able to trace this couplet. On the sentiment compare the eloquent words of the young wife at vol. i, p. 200 of my ‘ Buddhist Birth Stories,’ and Sutta Nipata I, rr.
p. 12
p. 2
2. The king said: ‘Did the Buddha, Nagasena, the omniscient one, foresee all things ?’
‘Yes. The Blessed One was not only omniscient. He foresaw all things.’
‘Then why was it that he was in the habit only from time to time, and as occasion arose, of laying down rules for the members of the Order! ?’
‘Is there any physician, O king, who knows all the medicinal drugs to be found on the earth ?’
‘Yes, there may be such a man.’
‘Well, O king, does he give his decoctions to the patient to drink at a time when illness has already set in, or before that ?’
‘When the malady has arisen.’
‘Just so, great king, the Blessed One, though he was omniscient and foresaw all things, laid down no rule at an unseasonable time, but only when need arose did he establish a regulation which his disciples were not to transgress as long as they lived.’
‘ Well answered, Nagasena!’
3. [75] The king said: ‘Is it true, Nagasena, that the Buddha was endowed with the thirty-two bodily marks of a great man, and graced with the eighty subsidiary characteristics ; that he was golden in colour with a skin like gold, and that there spread around him a glorious halo of a fathom’s length?’
‘Such, O king, was the Blessed One.’
‘But were his parents like that ?’
‘No, they were not.’
‘In that case you must say that he was born so. But surely a son is either like his mother, or those on
? This is how Hinafi-kumburé understands the passage.
p. 117
the mother’s side, or he is like his father, or those on the father’s side !’
The Elder replied: ‘Is there such a thing, O king, as a lotus flower with a hundred petals?’
‘Yes, there is.’
‘Where does it grow up ?’
‘It is produced in mud, and in water it comes to perfection ?.’
‘But does the lotus resemble the mud of the lake, whence it springs up, either in colour, or in smell, or in taste ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘Then does it resemble the water ?’
‘Nor that either.’
‘Just so, great king, is it that the Blessed One had the bodily signs and marks you have mentioned, though his parents had them not.’
‘Well answered, Nagasena|!’
4. The king said: ‘Was the Buddha, Nagasena, pure in conduct (was he a Brahma-Afrin)?’
‘Yes, the Blessed One was pure.’
‘Then, Nagasena, it follows that he was a follower of Brahma ?.’
1 Asfyati. See Dr. Morris in the ‘Journal of the P4li Text Society,’ 1884, p. 72.
* There is an untranslatable play here upon the name of the god, which is used in its sense of ‘pure, best,’ in the expression ‘pure in conduct.’ The first question really amounts to: Was the Buddha’s conduct ‘Brahma, that is, ‘ best,’ which has come to have the meaning ‘pure’ for the same reason that our expression ‘a moral man’ has often that particular connotation? It is quite true that the etymological meaning of the word is neither ‘ best’ nor ‘ pure’; but when our author wrote the secondary sense had completely, in Pali, driven out the etymological sense.
p. 5
‘Have you a state elephant, O king ?’
‘Certainly.’ [76]
‘Well now, does that elephant ever trumpet (literally “cry the heron’s cry?”)?’
‘Oh, yes.’
‘ But is he, then, on that account a follower of the herons ?’
‘Of course not.’
‘Now tell me, great king, has Brahm& wisdom (Buddhi), or has he not ?’
‘He is a being with wisdom.’
‘Then (on your argument) he is surely a follower of Buddha *.’
‘ Well answered, Nagasena !’
5. The king said: ‘Is ordination® a good thing ?’
‘Yes, a good thing and a beautiful.’
‘But did the Buddha obtain it, or not ?’
‘Great king, when the Blessed One attained omniscience at the foot of the tree of Knowledge, that was to him an ordination. There was no conferring of ordination upon him at the hands of others—in the way that the Blessed One laid down regulations for his disciples, never to be transgressed by them their lives long ¢!’
There was no conferring of ordination upon him at the hands of others—in the way that the Blessed One laid down regulations for his disciples, never to be transgressed by them their lives long ¢!’
‘Very true, Nagasena!’
’ This technical term for an elephant’s trumpeting is not infrequent. See, for instance, Gataka I, 50.
* As a matter of fact Brahma, the nearest approach in the Indian thought of that time to our idea of God, is always represented, in Buddhism, as a good Buddhist. See, for instance, ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ p. 116, and my note at p. 117.
3 Upasampada. Admission to the higher grade in the Order.
4 Mr. Trenckner again suspects something dropped out in this reply. But the connection of ideas seems to me quite sufficient.
p. 119
6. The king said: ‘To which of these two, Nagasena,—the man who weeps at the death of his mother, and the man who weeps out of love for the Truth (Dhamma),—are his tears a cure ?’
‘ The tears of the one, O king, are stained and hot with the three fires of passion. The tears of the other are stainless and cool. Now there is cure in coolness and calm, but in heat and passion there can be no cure ?.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
7. The king said: ‘What is the distinction, Nagasena, between him who is full of passion, and him who is void of passion ?’ .
‘The one is overpowered by craving, O king, and the other not.’
‘But what does that mean ?’
‘The one is in want, O king, and the other not.’
‘I look at ‘it, Sir, in this way. He who has passion and he who has not—both of them alike— desire what is good to eat, either hard or soft. And neither of them desires what is wrong.’
‘The lustful man, O king, in eating his food enjoys both the taste and the lust that arises from taste, [77] but the man free from lusts experiences the taste only, and not the lust arising therefrom.’
‘ Well answered, Nagasena!’ .
The Simhalese follows the Pali, but that of course only shows that the text before the translator was here the same as in Mr, Trenckner’s edition.
1 The point of this lies in the allusion to the coolness and calm of Nirvama, or Arahatship, which is the dying out of the three fires of lust, ill-will, and delusion. The word used for coolness, Sitala, is one of the many epithets of Arahatship.
p. 8
8. The king said: ‘Venerable Nagasena, where does wisdom dwell ?’
‘Nowhere, O king.’
‘Then, Sir, there is no such thing as wisdom.’
‘Where does the wind dwell, O king ?’
‘Not anywhere, Sir.’
‘So there is no such thing as wind.’
‘Well answered, Nagasena !’
9. The king said: ‘When you speak of transmigration ', NAgasena, what does that mean ?’
‘A being born here, O king, dies here. Having died here, it springs up elsewhere. Having been born there, there it dies. Having died there, it springs up elsewhere. That is what is meant by transmigration.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
Having died here, it springs up elsewhere. Having been born there, there it dies. Having died there, it springs up elsewhere. That is what is meant by transmigration.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘It is like the case of a man who, after eating a mango, should set the seed in the ground. From that a great tree would be produced and give fruit. And there would be no end to the succession, in that way, of mango trees.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
10. The king said: ‘By what, N4gasena, does one recollect what is past and done long ago ?’
‘ By memory.’
‘But is it not by the mind’, not by the memory’, that we recollect ?’
‘Do you recollect any business, O king, that you have done and then forgotten ?’
‘Yes.’
‘What then? Were you then without a mind ?’
» Samsara, ? Xittena, no satiya.
p. 121
‘No. But my memory failed me.’
‘Then why do you say that it is by the mind, not by the memory, that we recollect ?’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
11. The king said: ‘Does memory, Nagasena, always arise subjectively, [78] or is it stirred up by suggestion from outside! ?’
‘Both the one and the other.’
‘But does not that amount to all memory being subjective in origin, and never artificial ?’
‘If, O king, there were no artificial (imparted) memory, then artisans would have no need of practice, or art, or schooling, and teachers would be useless. But the contrary is the case.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
Here ends the Sixth Chapter.
1 I follow Hinasi-kumburé’s interpretation of the difficult words in the text, which Mr. Trenckner says is corrupt. Ka/umika is ‘ artificial,’ like the Sanskrit krétrima. It has only been found as yet in our author.
p. 1
Book III. CHAPTER 7.
1. The king said: ‘In how many ways, Nagasena, does memory spring up ?’
Trenckner says is corrupt. Ka/umika is ‘ artificial,’ like the Sanskrit krétrima. It has only been found as yet in our author.
p. 1
Book III. CHAPTER 7.
1. The king said: ‘In how many ways, Nagasena, does memory spring up ?’
‘In sixteen ways, O king. That is to say: by personal experience ', as when the venerable Ananda, or the devoted woman Khugguttara, or any others who had that power, called to mind their previous births—[79] or by outward aid*, as when others continue to remind one who is by nature forgetful—or by the impression made by the greatness of some occasion ®, as kings remember their coronation day, or as we remember the day of our conversion—by the impression made by joy *, as when one remembers that which gave him pleasure—or by the impression made by sorrow’, as when one remembers that which pained him—or from similarity of appearance‘, as on seeing one like them we call to mind the mother or father or sister or brother, or on seeing a camel or an ox or an ass we Call to mind others like them—or by difference of appearance’, as when we remember that such and such a colour, sound, smell, taste, or touch belong to such and such a thing—or by the knowledge of speech *, as when one who is by nature forgetful is reminded by others and then himself remembers—or by a sign °, as when we recognise a draught bullock by a brand mark or some other sign—or from effort to recollect, as when one byp. 123 nature forgetful is made to recollect by being urged again and again: “try and think of it”—or by calculation", as when one knows by the training he has received in writing that such and such a letter ought to follow after such and such a one—or by arithmetic }*, as when accountants do big sums by their knowledge of figures—or by learning by heart 8, as the repeaters of the scriptures by their skill in learning by heart recollect so much—[80] or by meditation 4, as when a Bhikkhu calls to mind his temporary states in days gone by—by reference to a book, as when kings calling to mind a previous regulation, say: “ Bring the book here,” and remind themselves out of that—or by a pledge *, as when at the sight of goods deposited a man recollects (the circumstances under which they were pledged)—or by association’, as when one remembers a thing because one has seen it, or a sound because one has heard it, or an odour because one has smelt it, or a touch because one has felt it, or a concept because one has perceived it.’ ‘Very good, Nagasena!’
1 Abhigfnato. 7? Kafumikfya. * O/drika-vi##dnato.
* Hita-vi##anato. 5 Ahita-viinvanato.,
* Sabh4ga-nimittato. 7 Visabhaga-nimittato.
* Kathabhiaa@anato. ° Lakkhamato. ™ Saramato.
2. The king said: ‘Your people say, Nagasena, that though a man should have lived a hundred
4 Muddato (see above, p. 6). 13 Gananfto.
The king said: ‘Your people say, Nagasena, that though a man should have lived a hundred
4 Muddato (see above, p. 6). 13 Gananfto.
1s Dharamato. The noun dhdranak4 is only found here (where I follow the Simhalese interpretation) and at Gataka II, 203 (where it means ‘ debtor,’ as in Sanskrit).
4 Bh4vanato. Fora translation of the full text, here abridged in the text, see ‘ Buddhist Suttas,’ pp. 215, 216 (§ 17).
% Potthaka-nibandhanato. %® Upanikkhepato.
17 Anubh{fitato, perhaps ‘experience.’ There are really seventeen, not sixteen, so some two must have been regarded by the author as forming one between them. These may be Nos. 1 and ~ 14, or more likely Nos. 4 and 5.
T24 THE QUESTIONS OF KING MILINDA. IIT, 7, 3-
years an evil life, yet if, at the moment of death, thoughts of the Buddha should enter his mind, he will be reborn among the gods. This I don’t believe. And thus do they also say: “ By one case of destruction of life a man may be reborn in purgatory.” That, too, I cannot believe.’
‘ But tell me,O king. Would even a tiny stone float on the water without a boat ?’
‘Certainly not.’
‘Very well; but would not a hundred cart-loads of stones float on the water if they were loaded ina boat ?’
‘Yes, they would float right enough.’
‘Well, good deeds are like the boat.’
‘Very good, Nagasena!’
3. The king said: ‘Do you (recluses), Nagasena, strive after the removal of past sorrow ?’
‘No.’
‘What then? Is it future sorrow you strive to remove ?’
‘No.’
‘Present sorrow, then ?’ [81]
‘ Not that either.’
‘ Then if it be neither past, nor future, nor present sorrow that you strive to remove, whereunto is it that you strive ?’
‘What are you asking, O king? That this sorrow should cease and no other sorrow should arise—that is what we strive after.’
‘But, NAgasena, is there (now) such a thing as future sorrow ?’
‘No. I grant that.’
‘Then you are mighty clever people to strive after the removal of that which does not exist!’
Il], 7, 3- FUTURE SORROW. 125
‘Has it ever happened to you, O king, that rival kings rose up against you as enemies and opponents?’
‘Yes, certainly.’
‘Then you set to work, I suppose, to have moats dug, and ramparts thrown up, and watch towers erected, and strongholds built, and stores of food collected??’
‘Not at all. All that had been prepared beforehand.’
‘Or you had yourself trained in the management of war elephants, and in horsemanship, and in the use of the war chariot, and in archery and fencing ?’
‘Not at all. I had learnt all that before.’
‘ But why ?’
‘With the object of warding off future danger.’
‘How so? Is there such a thing (now) as future danger ?’
‘No. I must grant that.’
‘Then you kings are mighty clever people to trouble yourselves about the warding off of that which does not exist !’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
Is there such a thing (now) as future danger ?’
‘No. I must grant that.’
‘Then you kings are mighty clever people to trouble yourselves about the warding off of that which does not exist !’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
‘Tell me, O king. Is it when you are athirst that you set to work to have wells dug, or ponds hollowed out, or reservoirs formed, with the object of getting something to drink ?’
‘Certainly not. All that has been prepared beforehand.’
‘ But to what end?’
‘With the object of preventing future thirst.’
‘Howso? Is there such a thing as future thirst?’
1 All that follows only differs by slight additions from III, 4, 3 above, pp. 100-102,
p. 4
‘No, Sir
‘So you are mighty clever people, O king, [82] to take all that trouble to prevent the future thirst which all the time does not exist !’
‘Give me a further illustration.’
[Then the Elder referred, as before, to the means people always took of warding against future hunger, and the king expressed his pleasure at the way in which the puzzle had been solved. ]
4. The king said: ‘How far is it, Nagasena, from here to the Brahma world? ?’
‘Very far is it, O king. If a rock, the size of an upper chamber, were to fall from there, it would take four months to reach the earth, though it came down eight-and-forty thousand leagues* each day and night.’
‘Good, Nagasena! Now do not your people say that a Bhikkhu, who has the power of Iddhi and the mastery over his mind’, can vanish from Gambu-dipa, and appear in the Brahma world, as quickly as a strong man could stretch forth his bent up arm, or bend it in again if it were stretched out? That is a saying I cannot believe. How is it possible that he could traverse so quickly so many hundreds of leagues ?’
The Elder replied: ‘In what district, O king, were you born ?’
' One of the highest heavens.
* Yogana, a league of seven miles.
* Ketovasippatto, which Hfnasi-kumburé renders mano vasi prapta wi. I know of no passage in the Pifakas where the phrase occurs in connection with Iddhi; but it is often used by our author. See, for instance, just below, III, 7, 9.
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‘There is an island called Alasanda'. It was there I was born.’
‘ And how far is Alasanda from here ?’
‘About two hundred leagues.’
‘Do you know for certain of any business you once did there and now recollect ?’
‘Oh, yes.’
‘So quickly, great king, have you gone about two hundred leagues.’
‘Very good, Nagasena !’
5. The king said: ‘If one man, Nagasena, were to die here and be reborn in the Brahma world, and another were to die here and be reborn in Kashmir, which of the two would arrive first ?’
‘Both together, O king.’
‘Give me an illustration.’
‘In what town [838], O king, were you born ?’
‘There is a village called Kalasi. It was there I was born.’